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What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

theguardian.com

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Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#361

Post by empath75 »

jakobegger wrote: post #266

Instead of giving money to poor people, who then have to spend it all on rent, why not provide affordable housing? In Linz we have something called "housing cooperatives" (the German word is "Wohngenossenschaften"). These cooperatives build apartments, and to rent them you become a member of the cooperative. The goal of these cooperatives is not to make a profit, but to provide affordable housing. And it's amazing ho…

We have housing projects in the us, but concentrating poor people in one place has its own problems. The projects are synonymous with gun violence in the US.

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#362

Post by JoeAltmaier »

jakobegger wrote: post #266

Instead of giving money to poor people, who then have to spend it all on rent, why not provide affordable housing? In Linz we have something called "housing cooperatives" (the German word is "Wohngenossenschaften"). These cooperatives build apartments, and to rent them you become a member of the cooperative. The goal of these cooperatives is not to make a profit, but to provide affordable housing. And it's amazing ho…

Both are necessary. But it turns out people are (statistically) better at spending money for themselves, than having a nanny state spend it for them. And the cost of the 'planned economy' of the welfare state is in addition to that. E.g. US Welfare spends 60% of their budget on administration. How much better to spend 100% on benefits, and have the people figure out for themselves what they need?

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#363

Post by pc86 »

basch wrote: post #358
jakobegger wrote: post #266

Instead of giving money to poor people, who then have to spend it all on rent, why not provide affordable housing? In Linz we have something called "housing cooperatives" (the German word is "Wohngenossenschaften"). These cooperatives build apartments, and to rent them you become a member of the cooperative. The goal of these cooperatives is not to make a profit, but to provide affordable housing. And it's amazing ho…

> Instead of giving money to poor people, who then have to spend it all on rent, why not provide affordable housing? You could probably make the same argument for prescription drugs and patent fees, no?

Are poor people spending an exorbitant percentage of their income on patent fees?

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#364

Post by NoGravitas »

personjerry wrote: post #127

One thing I find interesting about the current state of affairs is that the top 1% own more than 50% of the world's wealth. Which means that on average if a person just up and decided to not recognize money and property in the current system, they would in theory come up ahead. Now, this might sound technical and perhaps unrealistic, but if this level of wealth inequality continues, then one day enough people (i.e. a…

You are not the first person to [observe this][0][1] :)

Ultimately, it's (only?) a collective action problem.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_of_the_world,_unite!

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Masque_of_Anarchy

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#365

Post by Retric »

jakobegger wrote: post #266

Instead of giving money to poor people, who then have to spend it all on rent, why not provide affordable housing? In Linz we have something called "housing cooperatives" (the German word is "Wohngenossenschaften"). These cooperatives build apartments, and to rent them you become a member of the cooperative. The goal of these cooperatives is not to make a profit, but to provide affordable housing. And it's amazing ho…

This just becomes another subsidy. IMO, we need to build a large supply of tiny but high quality apartments (good sound insulation etc.) in good locations so the market will lower their value yet there still expensive enough to attract young workers instead of the poor. (~350sf)

The other reasonable approach is simply to build lot's of housing in good locations. If the supply is large enough prices end up falling. Unfortunately, larger apartments mean taller buildings which pushes up prices.

Instead of the current approach where all apartments are basically the same thing and the only thing that drives down prices is poor location, maintenance, and older buildings.

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#366

Post by kefka »

rogual wrote: post #275
kefka wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. Unless you were in on the ground floor with CPU mining, you aren't getting many coins now. There was only 6 months where you could use GFX cards, and now the "room full of ASICs" take the cake. Bitcoin is useful if you have goods, services, or currency to convert to it. It is not "free magical money". Its main attribute is that it is stateless... and that's a big deal and also not a big deal to those whom…

He's not saying it's free money, he's saying it's easy to have an account.

Well, for starters, you need a computer that can create the public/private key pair for a BTC transaction. That's nowhere near free... Whereas most banks allow creation of an account for $50

BTC highly fluctuates, making storing money in this currency highly unstable. It's good to pay someone across the world, where US banking regs get in the way.

Getting into the BTC ecosystem is hard, unless you have hard currency to trade, or goods/services. Poor people are still at the whim of those whom have.

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#367

Post by rahimnathwani »

jakobegger wrote: post #266

Instead of giving money to poor people, who then have to spend it all on rent, why not provide affordable housing? In Linz we have something called "housing cooperatives" (the German word is "Wohngenossenschaften"). These cooperatives build apartments, and to rent them you become a member of the cooperative. The goal of these cooperatives is not to make a profit, but to provide affordable housing. And it's amazing ho…

"The only problem is that there are very long waiting lists (more than 5 years in some cases)."

So some proportion of poorer people are getting cheap housing, and others are priced out. This sounds like the same outcome that results from rent controls in San Francisco and New York.

"It's amazing how cheap good housing can be when it's not necessary to make a profit for the owner."

What would need to change in order for these housing cooperatives to expand enough to reduce waiting lists to <1 year?

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#368

Post by kdamken »

herbetdangerbri wrote: post #80
zw123456 wrote: post #59

There is an old saying that "if you took all the money away from all the rich people, and spread it around evenly to everyone else, within 2 or 3 years, all the formerly rich would be rich again having taken advantage of the poor who don't know how to make and keep money". This adage, although heartless to be sure, has some degree of truth to it in my view. The problem is twofold, 1) a lot of people become rich not b…

> they feel no remorse for taking advantage of someone else I don't understand what it means 'to take advantage of someone else' in the context of this thread. Is Starbucks taking advantage of me when I want a coffee by selling me a coffee? Is Elton John taking advantage of my desire to see him play live at my party and the fact that there is only one of him by charging me a million dollars to appear? Are the bus com…

This is a fantastic point. It's just another transaction, like the hundreds of other ones you do every month. You can almost always find somewhere cheaper to live. Can't find a house/apartment to rent in your price range? Get some roommates, or see about renting a room in a house, it'll be much cheaper.

People tend to get seriously up in arms about renting, when in reality it's not nearly as bad a deal as they make it out to be. A lot of times it can be a better financial choice than owning.

Some food for thought: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2012/02/23/rent-v-owning-your-home-op...

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#369

Post by alanwatts »

>And I'm simply saying that more and more, we've got to begin to ask questions about the whole society. We are called upon to help the discouraged beggars in life's marketplace. (Yes) But one day we must come to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring...Now, when I say questioning the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of economic exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. (All right) These are the triple evils that are interrelated.

-MLK, Where Do We Go From Here? 1967

Re: What if the problem of poverty is that it’s profitable to other people?

#370

Post by kdamken »

Let's do some basic math - she makes $400,000 a year, on 131 units. 400,000 / 131 / 12 = $254 a month per unit. That's really not a ton of money for each one. $254 for your own place to live isn't a bad deal.

Additionally, when they say she makes $400k a year - is this her take home, or her business's gross profit? Are they considering the money she has to spend on mortgages, insurance, repairs, business administration, rent collection, legal fees, etc?

A holiday in Jamaica is something most middle class people can and often do afford, even lower middle class. You can get a trip to an all inclusive for a week with airfare for $1000, maybe even less.

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