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Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

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Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#91

Post by bigiain »

carbocation wrote: post #63
danielrhodes wrote: post #50

Here's my guess based on the following info: - The article points out that the planes are typically only seen M-F, which suggests that what they are doing is usually not time-sensitive. - They mention the planes have a very high quality camera on board. - From the flight patterns, you can see they repeatedly circle the same location, but not apparently for hours and hours at time. When Apple first released their Maps…

Using FLIR for drug growing detection requires a warrant.

Interestingly, I immediately considered the use of FLiR looking for their modified exhaust systems - I wonder whether the current inexpensive Lepton FLiR modules could "see" the difference between "normal" plane and these ones with (presumably quite large/hot) underslung mufflers?

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#92

Post by bigiain »

jessaustin wrote: post #86
carbocation wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using FLIR for drug growing detection requires a warrant.

So they're using it for some other purpose. It's just a coincidence that all growers on the flight path have been busted via "anonymous tips".

aka: parallel construction

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#93

Post by repiret »

insickness wrote: post #81

I have to say, I'm really not against this. I used to read about privacy people getting pissed at all the CCTV surveillance in London, etc. And it concerned me. But then I got into photography. And in that case, police were trying to trample on the rights of photographers. But the main idea is that photographers are allowed to photograph pretty much anywhere in public. And I agree with this. You can't make laws forbi…

I think the question is how the character of the surveillance changes when technology allows it to be done at larger scales with longer retention and more data mining. I think this a central question in modern privacy policy. You could argue that since its appropriate for the cops in a patrol car to look around, and cite someone they see jaywalking, it would be appropriate to install 360° high resolution cameras, to programmatically analyze the footage to cite everyone for jaywalking and other similarly trivial offenses, and to retain the footage indefinitely. Or you could argue that the aggregation and automation changes things.

It has taken society centuries to come to the notions of privacy and public rights against the state that we have today. If the aggregation, retention and analysis enabled by technology changes things, as I think they do, and I think many of us here think they do, then we as a society have our work cut out for us to update our notions of privacy.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#94

Post by justinv »

brbsix wrote: post #13

For anyone who wants to see the live data for themselves, go to http://www.adsbexchange.com/ , click 'Global Radar View'. Then click 'Menu', 'Options', 'Filters', then enable the 'Interesting' filter. It's a Sunday, so there's not too much activity. However there's currently an FBI Cessna circling west of Washington D.C. [0] There's also a plane gridding east of LA. [1] It's registered to Dynamic Aviation Group out o…

You can also check out www.dxflights.com for realtime HFDL tracking on a map view.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#95

Post by repiret »

I own a Cessna 182 that was originally owned by the Washington State Police. While they owned it they added an automotive-style muffler (planes don't normally have mufflers) to use it for stealth surveillance. They tore that all out before they sold the plane.

There's a pretty complete description of what they did in the Form 337 history: http://mike.laiosa.org/N6594E/Airworthiness.pdf - see in particular pages 27 and 55.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#96

Post by woodman »

drhodes wrote: post #24

reminds me of a radiolab episode: http://www.radiolab.org/story/eye-sky/ here's the summary, > In 2004, when casualties in Iraq were rising due to roadside bombs, Ross McNutt and his team came up with an idea. With a small plane and a 44 mega-pixel camera, they figured out how to watch an entire city all at once, all day long. Whenever a bomb detonated, they could zoom onto that spot and then, because this eye in the…

Radar has been used to do continuous ground surveillance since the 60s [0]. Most people associate it with anti-armor, but it was originally used to track humans beneath the jungle canopy. Systems had been developed to collect and integrate that data for event analysis long before its application in Iraq.

Ross McNutt is simply selling a product, and cameras are easier to sell than radar sensors.

[0] https://www.ll.mit.edu/publications/journal/pdf/vol12_no2/12...

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#98

Post by detaro »

Razengan wrote: post #71
danielrhodes wrote: post #50

Here's my guess based on the following info: - The article points out that the planes are typically only seen M-F, which suggests that what they are doing is usually not time-sensitive. - They mention the planes have a very high quality camera on board. - From the flight patterns, you can see they repeatedly circle the same location, but not apparently for hours and hours at time. When Apple first released their Maps…

Can't balloons or drones be used instead of planes? I can't imagine their fuel must be cheap. Who pays for all this and what are they getting?

I'd assume the following reason: Planes are the "easy" default, clearly legal to operate, well-understood and most people don't think twice if they happen to see a Cessna somewhere.

Drones probably have legal issues, big ones (range, payload) are also quite expensive to build and operate and require more specialized skills (unless there are tons of ex-military drone operators to be hired cheaply?). Would also probably attract more attention.

Blimps have been proposed and tested for all kinds of surveillance tasks, but you'd get the main benefit again if they were autonomous. Seems to be in development, but not there yet.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#99

Post by woodman »

daveguy wrote: post #12
donatj wrote: post #3

Map shows right over my house, the conspiracy theorist in me says 'they're watching me!'

If a circle is dead center around your house then you are probably not the focus. Check out the gifs lower down after the San Bernardino attacks. The locations they were investigating -- mosque, workplace, home of Farook -- are all offset from the center for the best combination of angle / proximity. Edit: Also, check out Los Angeles (if that's not where you are from). They are swarming LA! I'd be weirded out if I wa…

I lived in an old house, in a rural area, where the previous owner had painted some concrete bright green. I was surprised by the amount of air traffic I saw, being as deep into the sticks as I was, until I actually started watching the aircraft. They were using my property as a landmark to turn on for final approach to a municipal airport several miles away. But I can see how that pattern could cause someone to jump to the conclusion that they are the subject of an incredibly expensive revolving tail.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#100

Post by sixothree »

rayiner wrote: post #49
rmxt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There needs to be further refinement as to what actually constitutes "watching", e.g. with respect to duration, frequency, information monitored, etc. US v. Jones held that installing a GPS device on a car constituted a trespass against one's "personal effects". I think the similar argument here would be that a near constant observation of someone, even while in public, would amount to the same sort of search, even t…

Jones was based on the classic idea that when the government does what would be a trespass if a private person did it, then a warrant is required. Observing someone in public is not a trespass, no matter how much you do it.

So it's completely legal to follow someone every place they go? I thought that was very illegal.
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