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Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

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Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#71

Post by Razengan »

danielrhodes wrote: post #50

Here's my guess based on the following info: - The article points out that the planes are typically only seen M-F, which suggests that what they are doing is usually not time-sensitive. - They mention the planes have a very high quality camera on board. - From the flight patterns, you can see they repeatedly circle the same location, but not apparently for hours and hours at time. When Apple first released their Maps…

Can't balloons or drones be used instead of planes? I can't imagine their fuel must be cheap. Who pays for all this and what are they getting?

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#72

Post by rayiner »

rmxt wrote: post #61
rayiner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jones was based on the classic idea that when the government does what would be a trespass if a private person did it, then a warrant is required. Observing someone in public is not a trespass, no matter how much you do it.

You are correct to say that you can't commit a trespass by observing someone in public. However, trespassing is not an exclusive test as to whether a search is permissible (though it was the applicable rubric for Jones). The Katz test still must be applied, above and beyond the trespassory test. The concurrences in the Jones opinion state "at the very least, “longer term GPS monitoring in investigations of most offen…

My point is that Jones doesn't really help you: the majority opinion focused on the trespass theory, and did not rely on the consequences of longer-term GPS monitoring.

In my opinion, the whole "expectation of privacy" thing is reading words into the 4th amendment that aren't there. If you look at the phrasing of the text, which focuses on "searches" and "seizures" of "persons, houses, papers, and effects" it's clear that the 4th amendment prohibits the government from doing what would be a common law trespass (to the person, to real property, or to chattels). It's based on property rights, not privacy.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#73

Post by cpncrunch »

DGAP wrote: post #66

The main angle this article seems to take is that this surveillance is unfair because it may target Muslims. I see no problem with surveilling the mosque of two people who just committed a terrorist attack, in fact it would be risky not to do so.

The article also points out that FBI flights circled other muslim communities as well. However all of these attacks are perpetrated in the name of Islam (albeit bastardised Islam), so it seems reasonable for them to do this, even if politically incorrect. Also, we don't know if there were any suspects in those communities linked to the attackers.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#74

Post by jzwinck »

Razengan wrote: post #71
danielrhodes wrote: post #50

Here's my guess based on the following info: - The article points out that the planes are typically only seen M-F, which suggests that what they are doing is usually not time-sensitive. - They mention the planes have a very high quality camera on board. - From the flight patterns, you can see they repeatedly circle the same location, but not apparently for hours and hours at time. When Apple first released their Maps…

Can't balloons or drones be used instead of planes? I can't imagine their fuel must be cheap. Who pays for all this and what are they getting?

Taxpayers pay for it.

I'm not sure balloons could give adequate control, but drones are a great idea and I look forward to the day when they are so cheap that the same amount of tax money can pay for drastically increased surveillance from the sky.

Oh wait.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#75

Post by mentat »

knz wrote: post #70
brbsix wrote: post #13

For anyone who wants to see the live data for themselves, go to http://www.adsbexchange.com/ , click 'Global Radar View'. Then click 'Menu', 'Options', 'Filters', then enable the 'Interesting' filter. It's a Sunday, so there's not too much activity. However there's currently an FBI Cessna circling west of Washington D.C. [0] There's also a plane gridding east of LA. [1] It's registered to Dynamic Aviation Group out o…

This assumes that surveillance aircraft have their ADS-B transponder on. It's not required until January 2020 ( https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/faq/ ).

Running without ADS-B around major airports would be unacceptable. I think drones are going to be required to have them before 2020 which makes me think that isn't quite right.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#76

Post by rdtsc »

knz wrote: post #70
brbsix wrote: post #13

For anyone who wants to see the live data for themselves, go to http://www.adsbexchange.com/ , click 'Global Radar View'. Then click 'Menu', 'Options', 'Filters', then enable the 'Interesting' filter. It's a Sunday, so there's not too much activity. However there's currently an FBI Cessna circling west of Washington D.C. [0] There's also a plane gridding east of LA. [1] It's registered to Dynamic Aviation Group out o…

This assumes that surveillance aircraft have their ADS-B transponder on. It's not required until January 2020 ( https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/faq/ ).

How would traffic controllers handle them over US or busy cities? Just see them on radar, would they know that this object is not someone drone? Or would they rely on matching with a flight plan and expect it.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#77

Post by 8note »

brbsix wrote: post #13

For anyone who wants to see the live data for themselves, go to http://www.adsbexchange.com/ , click 'Global Radar View'. Then click 'Menu', 'Options', 'Filters', then enable the 'Interesting' filter. It's a Sunday, so there's not too much activity. However there's currently an FBI Cessna circling west of Washington D.C. [0] There's also a plane gridding east of LA. [1] It's registered to Dynamic Aviation Group out o…

wow, those are some poorly flown lines in [2]

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#78

Post by neurotech1 »

mentat wrote: post #75
knz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that surveillance aircraft have their ADS-B transponder on. It's not required until January 2020 ( https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/faq/ ).

Running without ADS-B around major airports would be unacceptable. I think drones are going to be required to have them before 2020 which makes me think that isn't quite right.

With ATC notified, the helicopter could revert to Mode-C [0] transponder mode, using an assigned transponder code and ATC would still track them safely. TCAS [1] would also still function safely when interrogated by secondary radar.

ADS-B reduces controller workload as they don't have to manually tag individual aircraft, especially in a high traffic area. ADS-B also works without secondary radar interrogation.

When there is a high speed chase near an airport, sometimes the tower controller will request the helicopter remain under a certain altitude or clear of a specific area.

Additionally, websites like FlightAware.com have limited direct ADS-B coverage and also display the FAA 5-minute delayed feed. I've never heard of a "criminal" in the US using an ADS-B receiver to evade police helicopters in real time.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_transponder_interroga...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy...

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#79

Post by knz »

rdtsc wrote: post #76
knz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that surveillance aircraft have their ADS-B transponder on. It's not required until January 2020 ( https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/faq/ ).

How would traffic controllers handle them over US or busy cities? Just see them on radar, would they know that this object is not someone drone? Or would they rely on matching with a flight plan and expect it.

I work at a large airport near where these operations have occurred. From what I understand the local FAA office is well aware of them. I've been told "Don't ask" when we see unusual flight patterns. Commercial aircraft tend to follow well established patterns (STARs and SIDs etc) near major airports. As long as these flights stay below certain altitudes and away from the arrival and departure paths I don't think it would be a big deal for ATC.

Re: Maps Showing Where FBI Planes Are Watching from Above

#80

Post by knz »

mentat wrote: post #75
knz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that surveillance aircraft have their ADS-B transponder on. It's not required until January 2020 ( https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/faq/ ).

Running without ADS-B around major airports would be unacceptable. I think drones are going to be required to have them before 2020 which makes me think that isn't quite right.

Many commercial operations don't have ADS-B installed (I wish! That would make my life easier.). They use other systems like MLAT and primary radar to track them.
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