Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#21

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 8:26 PM UTC

radley wrote: post #16

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 5% of phones currently run Android 6.x. I don't really think that's a fair "requirement" to give to people, given that many people are otherwise prevented from getting a Marshmallow update not because of the age or model of their phones, but because the carrier has prevented it.

If someone was truly that concerned, they'd make the choice to buy a Nexus device for that protection rather than embrace a 3rd party device with manufacturer and carrier crud.

The user in question:

1. Purchased the device at a major electronics reseller during a period of specific contingency whilst travelling.

2. Prefers strongly to avoid mail-order purchasing for numerous reasons, including the possibility of in-transit interceptions and undocumented third-party enhancements.

3. Couldn't find a Nexus device at said major retailer.

4. Isn't aware of Nexus devices which offer expandable storage. Device in question has 128 GB of MicroSD storage. Max possible Nexus is ~16-32 GB last I checked, with no expansion possible.

I've explored other options, including a CyanogenMod reflash, though that's less than straighforward.

So, unfortunately, the world involves numerous compromises. I treat the device as hostile though of some utility. I've pressed several other app vendors on permissions, and am batting somewhat above 0.500 for having those reversed.

I've also vented considerable spleen at Google over how it manages Android. Given my previous record with recommendations, I expect to be fully vindicated in about 3-4 years.

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#22

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 8:31 PM UTC

rocky1138 wrote: post #11

Why not just use the Wikipedia website?

That's a fair question and the next-best option.

1. Wikipedia is of itself a highly useful online resource, and one of a few that stands almost on its own.

2. Chrome browsers universally suck. They suck in different ways, but they all suck. For the purposes of reading Wikipedia, the Wikipedia app sucks considerably less.

3. Specifically, it's fast and responsive, doesn't keel over, offers a number of features (the next-article preview feature especially) which are useful, and allows me to maintain a tabset that's specific to Wikipedia research rather than The Web At Large. I can download/bookmark specific articles for offline viewing.

4. It is lacking bits. Not being able to access article history, talk pages, and other Wikipedia infrastructure among others. I need to see if it can be Tor routed as well.

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#23

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

awinter-py wrote: post #15

Urgh, I am so over permissions. I don't mind if my app accesses geo as long as it doesn't exfiltrate. In a perfect world, only a small subset of an app's data should leave the device. This ends up being pretty hard to do generically. If a geofence event triggers a network call, has geo information been exfiltrated? As things are, I don't feel like I'm past having to trust the app author.

I've suggested separately that Google should can the concept of supporting apps and look at what functions it wants to provide, and provide a Free Software framework for supporting that, with a guidance structure specifying what app authors and package maintainers must and must not do.

Pretty much Debian.

https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/2eg1rG6k...

(Caution: harsh language.)

Edit: Updated link. Had the wrong Android rant referenced earlier.

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#24

Post by Nullabillity » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 8:49 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #18

pramodliv1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, since the code is open sourced ( https://github.com/wikimedia/apps-android-wikipedia ), I guess they get the benefit of the doubt?

OpenSSL was open sourced. That worked out real well. It's not being open sourced that leads to secure, well-behaved software. It's being well-behaved, secure software. Which, among other properties, means following the principles of least privilege and least capability. See the OpenBSD project for more on that philosophy.

This isn't C we're talking about. You don't magically expose random memory with Java code.

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#25

Post by deleterious » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

This is not an overreaction at all. In fact, with the recent Wikipedia search engine debacal, the chances of these so called necessary permissions being unrelated, or coincidence, is nil and none. Jeez people keep up!

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#26

Post by noobermin » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #18

pramodliv1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, since the code is open sourced ( https://github.com/wikimedia/apps-android-wikipedia ), I guess they get the benefit of the doubt?

OpenSSL was open sourced. That worked out real well. It's not being open sourced that leads to secure, well-behaved software. It's being well-behaved, secure software. Which, among other properties, means following the principles of least privilege and least capability. See the OpenBSD project for more on that philosophy.

As someone else mentioned, open source is not a golden bullet. But, it being open source led tot he discovery of the bug and the fix, right?

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#27

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 9:33 PM UTC

Nullabillity wrote: post #24

dredmorbius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenSSL was open sourced. That worked out real well. It's not being open sourced that leads to secure, well-behaved software. It's being well-behaved, secure software. Which, among other properties, means following the principles of least privilege and least capability. See the OpenBSD project for more on that philosophy.

This isn't C we're talking about. You don't magically expose random memory with Java code.

Tool choice may improve security. See again OpenBSD, which has specifically rewritten parts of the C library to avoid classes of bugs.

That said, Java has a markedly less-than-perfect record.

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#28

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 9:33 PM UTC

pramodliv1 wrote: post #9

dkopi wrote: post #2

This reads to me as an overreaction. Sure, it's important to be vigilant about the permissions you give apps, but it's also important to understand the underlying OS and permission layers. TLDR: If you're concerned about your privacy, upgrade to Android 6.0 There's nothing wrong with Wikipedia letting you manage your Wikipedia account using the app. They're using the Account Manager API, which is the right way to app…

Also, since the code is open sourced ( https://github.com/wikimedia/apps-android-wikipedia ), I guess they get the benefit of the doubt?

And, in related news, Pwncloud:

https://blog.hboeck.de/archives/880-Pwncloud-bad-crypto-in-t...

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#29

Post by petepete » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

rocky1138 wrote: post #11

Why not just use the Wikipedia website?

Last time I used the app it didn't support 'Find in page' or pinching to zoom. The web site is great and just works for what I want to use it for. The only thing that's annoying is that when sections of the article are collapsed 'Find in page' doesn't work (which is obvious, but annoying).

Re: Wikipedia Android app now requests identity permissions

#30

Post by Mindless2112 » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 10:24 PM UTC

joelhaasnoot wrote: post #5

dkopi wrote: post #2

This reads to me as an overreaction. Sure, it's important to be vigilant about the permissions you give apps, but it's also important to understand the underlying OS and permission layers. TLDR: If you're concerned about your privacy, upgrade to Android 6.0 There's nothing wrong with Wikipedia letting you manage your Wikipedia account using the app. They're using the Account Manager API, which is the right way to app…

The Android 6.0 version is better in some ways, but has its issues. For instance, in Android 6.0 the Internet permission is assumed. For the truly privacy conscious, the best internet is no internet. There is something 'clean' about building an app without internet access. I created an app with schedule data that's updated every two months. With no need for regular updating, updates are distributed as app updates. Th…

You can use NetGuard [1] to block internet per app without root. (However, you can't use it if you need to use a VPN because NetGuard pretends to be a VPN, and Android only lets you use one at a time.)

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.ne...