Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firstly, California property taxes are limited by Prop 13 to being 1% of assessed value, so your $30k tax bill can only happen if your property went to $3 million. A $1 million house cannot have a tax higher than $10,000. There are well-established solutions to your issue about people being forced out of housing with rising demand. Massachusetts allows tax deferrals up to 50% of a property value. (If you want to get…
It's a bit more than 1% in SF, getting close to 1.2% http://sftreasurer.org/online-property-tax-payment-faq#taxam...
The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
231–240 of 243 posts
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you actually want to solve it, you need to think bigger than that. In fact, we need changes all the way up to the federal level. We need to overhaul the entire way that the US handles housing, across the board. In a nutshell, our current housing paradigm was born of the soldiers returning home from WW2. Thus, the entire infrastructure is geared towards supporting single family homes designed for the nuclear family…
It’s not a lifestyle thing. We need to separate our house from our net worth. As long as house prices rise faster than inflation, then that’s nice for the people who manage to buy a house, but it’s common-sense unsustainable. A soldier returning home from WW2 could buy his first house with a few years of savings. No mortgage necessary. A few decades later, housing prices rising faster than inflation, and a Gen X yupp…
These comments may also be useful: http://www.metafilter.com/contribute/activity/153873/search?...
Especially the first one:
http://www.metafilter.com/157297/I-cant-afford-to-buy-grocer...
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#233https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_%281... Good thoughts. You failed to mention Prop 13 which was put into place a long time ago and simply doesn't make sense anymore. It's at least part of the reason it is so affordable (in relative terms) for rich people to keep second homes here when they bought them years ago. We live in a building of 60 units where probably at least a third of those are abse…
In your example, the building you describe is a condominium? If so, then what does it matter what your tax bill is and if they are absentee owners; if the owner maintains the property, pays their bills and taxes, then you should be happy to have them. Tax reassessments during the boom of 2001 to 2007 were on track to price a lot of people out of their houses based on their current economic status. Proposition 13 and…
Because it ties housing prices to economic viability. If a person's housing value increases 10x, they should move if they can't afford to maintain it so that another more economically productive person can live in it.
It sounds evil on the surface, but the reality is that it will keep housing prices in line with the economic growth of the area. As it stands now, fixing the assessment value only encourages people to hold onto the house even longer because taxes eventually become a minuscule amount compared to the appreciation of the house.
If taxes are a fixed $10,000/yr on a house that is growing 10% in value every year, then it makes sense to hold onto the house indefinitely. However, if the property taxes increase proportionally each year, there comes a point in time where the calculus no longer works out and it makes sense to sell the property and cash out. Since this happens to everyone simultaneously, the growth in housing prices will also decrease (thus, reducing the growth in property tax).
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally I would rather have no income tax or property tax - just very high sales tax. IMO, sales tax has a much larger tax base than any of the others - as income tax requires you to have a job/be a citizen; and property tax requires you to... own property. But that's not the reality we live in. Property taxes fluctuate too much in California - you might be paying everything you can toward your mortgage to decreas…
Sales tax is regressive and thus should not be the main source of tax revenue, we cannot push this burden onto the shoulders of people who already have the least.
Personally I think it's strange that we start at 10% income tax on people making so little.
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or we could just move beyond property taxes as a means of funding municipalities. Trying to tie the market values of one's house to taxation, then trying to untie them from market fluctuation, is simply a poor heuristic for measuring a person's capability to pay taxes. A much better heuristic is progressive income taxes. So here's an idea: make real estate taxes more equal, more nominal, and more predictable long int…
Personally I think the market price for housing tends to reflect carrying costs. Which is take what a home buy can afford subtract taxes and insurance and that's the mortgage payment. The price is how big of a loan that will buy. So the yin and the yang, lower property taxes and the housing prices rise to compensate. The only difference is property taxes tend to pay for stuff that makes your home intrinsically more v…
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally I would rather have no income tax or property tax - just very high sales tax. IMO, sales tax has a much larger tax base than any of the others - as income tax requires you to have a job/be a citizen; and property tax requires you to... own property. But that's not the reality we live in. Property taxes fluctuate too much in California - you might be paying everything you can toward your mortgage to decreas…
Sales tax is regressive and thus should not be the main source of tax revenue, we cannot push this burden onto the shoulders of people who already have the least.
Anyway, most high sales tax proposals come with a post capita rebate.
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#237Housing in SF is an incredibly powerful illustration of the danger of letting things get so bad that the usual remedies no longer apply. Basically: - Traditionally, the proper fix for a shortage of housing is to build more houses. Just lift the existing regulations, and let the free market do what it does best: take care of the demand at an efficient price. - However, after years and years of very slow building, the…
> the houses would almost all be built for the very well off. The amount of houses you'd have to build before you started constructing truly affordable housing is immense. Actually, if demand is so high, why would anyone bother with building a house for a single family, willing to pay say $10,000,000, when they can build a 120 floor building of small apartments for 25,000 people, each willing to pay $200,000 (on aver…
A much better comparison would be a 6 bedroom mansion for $10mm, or a small building with ten 1-bedroom units. And if you look at high end real estate, the per square foot price is often multiples above the median, which is why it's more profitable to build those than lots of small units.
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then make prop 13 a 65+ only law that can only apply to your main residence.
Why only 65+? What about not forcing families to uproot and move because they can't afford the taxes?
At current property tax rate of 1.1%, a half-million dollar appreciation would result in $5500 yr additional property tax.
I would gladly trade spots with those who have to uproot themselves because they've had such massive home price appreciation.
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#239Is San Francisco really on a path to becoming almost entirely white? I thought a large portion of the Sunset and Richmond were Asian and it had a much larger Asian percentage than other cities?
Re: The Housing Market in San Francisco and Ideas to Fix It
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not a lifestyle thing. We need to separate our house from our net worth. As long as house prices rise faster than inflation, then that’s nice for the people who manage to buy a house, but it’s common-sense unsustainable. A soldier returning home from WW2 could buy his first house with a few years of savings. No mortgage necessary. A few decades later, housing prices rising faster than inflation, and a Gen X yupp…
This is a space I have studied. I don't have time today to expound at length in hopes that you might understand my point, which I feel you have wildly misunderstood. But this comment of mine from elsewhere might cast a bit more light on what I mean: http://www.metafilter.com/156605/No-Toilets-for-the-Homeless... (For context, it is a follow up to this comment of mine: http://www.metafilter.com/156605/No-Toilets-for-t…
When you say, “you need to think bigger than that. In fact, we need changes all the way up to the federal level,” I agree. The government up to the federal level has been using policies, tax benefits, and direct subsidies to promote detached single-family homes. I think that your solution of reorienting building priorities in favor of individual housing is not incompatible with my idea of removing homes as a long-term investment. Indeed, I think they are aligned: The most economical way to live by yourself is to live in an apartment with a whole lot of other people.
The suburban ideal has cost the country tremendously. Roads, sewers, air pollution, mental disturbance from the isolation, extended emergency vehicle response times, to name a few aspects that come to mind right now. Even perma-camping would destroy the environment if everybody did it. If we want to reduce our per-capita environmental impact, we are going to have to live in dense apartments, and we are going to have to make them affordable for everybody.
For cities to be affordable, we need to overrule the NIMBYs and allow the housing prices to go back down.
Where I’m least sure I agree is with the primacy of single living. A good solution will involve a diversity of housing stock, and we do need more single housing, but any society who want to survive long-term must encourage people to breed and produce a next generation. And once you’re done breeding, outcomes tend to be better if you’re involved with the next generation’s progeny, too. For the long-term health of society, we need plenty of large houses.