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Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

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Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#91
post #61
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he doesn't need to imply it, firing someone without explanation is bad management, no matter how young or old you are.

Either that or proactive lawyers. California is a no-cause state. Only when you state a cause, can it be used against you for bias. [Edit] Don't know about other states.

To provide an outside US perspective, it's not that easy to fire someone in Germany, the UK or Australia. Once you're past the probation period, you'd probably have to get one or multiple sorts of negative reviews and written warnings from HR or your superiors before being let go, otherwise you'd have ground to sue for unfair dismissal. That, or you'd be given a redundancy package.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#92
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked at several tech startups with sudden firing. The "norm" from my perspective tends to be a one month Performance Improvement Plan, usually just serving as a paper trail with very little hope of getting off of it, though I've seen people just suddenly walked out as well. I appreciate Dan Lyons cutting through the bullshit on tech startups and I recognize a lot of what he's talking about from my own experien…

So people get 1 month performance plans after positive or neutral reviews? Or are these places that don't do regular reviews? I've honestly never heard of that. Want to name names?

Out of four full-time jobs I've had in my career, I have had a performance review (three, actually--every six months!) at one of them. That was the one with a NASDAQ ticker. The gong-show "unicorn" startup, the technically impressive startup that was acquired to bolster a bigco's portfolio, and the medical startup where I managed three people and reported to the CEO. No performance reviews. Couldn't even pin down a manager to have a status update sometimes. (At one in particular my manager basically avoided talking to me until it was time to try to rip me a new one. Fun times.)

This happens a lot--and it being gross and a real bad way to manage doesn't really change that it happens a lot.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#93

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

> and a nap room with a hammock and soothing palm tree murals on the wall

This sounds like a great place to work. Outside of the phony hyper-positive posturing by management.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#94
post #8

The philosopher Slavoj Žižek explains this with the ‘postmodern’ boss: >Not a master but just a coordinator of our joint creative efforts; the first among equals. There should be no formalities among us, we should address him by his nickname, he shares a dirty joke with us… but in all this, HE REMAINS OUR MASTER.

I love some zizek, what piece did that come from?

In the book "States of Crisis and Post-Capitalist Scenarios".

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#95

> I joined the company in 2013 after spending 25 years in journalism and getting laid off from a top position at Newsweek. I thought working at a start-up would be great. The perks! The cool offices! > It turned out I’d joined a digital sweatshop, where people were packed into huge rooms, side by side, at long tables. It sounds like this journalist failed to investigate their new job before Day 1...

Or did investigate it, and decided it would be the perfect fodder for the book.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#96
post #4

> She was 35, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her 28-year-old manager that she had two weeks to get out. I think that's a bit funny that the author implies you can't be good as a manager at 28. Specially when you are writing an article about bias.

I'm not much older than that, but the average maturity of 28 year olds is not great. Putting lives in the hands of people that should still be learning the ropes is reckless and cruel.

Young managers (and I used to be one too) are the worst part of the startup culture, people with no training, inclination or predisposition for people management making others unproductive and ruining careers.

As a sector we should think hard about how we're handling ourselves because there will be nothing left a few years from now if we don't start working for the long run.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#98

I have to wonder how many anti-Lyons comments in this thread are HubSpot employees in stealth mode. Doesn't HubSpot do 'Sentiment Analysis' and that sort of stuff?

I wonder the same thing. Last time there was a post about him here a couple weeks ago there were current and former HubSpot employees all over it.

Apart from that, it is a shady company for sure though. It was less than a year ago that top executives were implicated by the fbi in trying to hack and extort Lyons during the lead up to the book. I think only one or two of the implicated executives ended up leaving the company as a result. Was their departures enough to fix the culture there?

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#99
I find companies that do the whole "we're a family, we're changing the world!" thing to be worse than your standard corporate gig that is more up front about you just being a cog in the machine. At least those companies are more honest about it, the other kind come off as fake and insincere.

Companies do not care about you. At all. You are nothing but a business asset to them. They may value your work, but they do not act in your best interest - they're going to try and pay you the least amount they can to have you work there.

This isn't actually a bad thing. Chances are, you don't really care about your company either, so it's kind of fair.

It's good to keep in mind - you are your own business, and you need to make decisions that are best for you.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#100
It seems to me that the author was generalizing from one specific experience he had, plus some anecdotal experiences he has gathered from others, to impugn the entire start-up community.

There may be some validity to what he says; I'm inclined to agree that there's disproportionate age-ism and sexism and probably several other kinds of -ism's in the start-up community, perhaps because their founders tend to be younger and less well versed in mainstream corporate behavior which in recent decades has been moving away from discrimination.

I don't see how a "glorified telemarketer" working on a desktop that watches him is a typical start-up tech worker, though. It sounds like tough and thankless work and I hope people get the message in the VC funding community that the way to build a high value company is not to treat people really badly and thus create this kind of bad press. At least, I hope it's not the way you create a good return on investment! Otherwise we're all in trouble.

I'm curious as to whether the comments about Amazon are broadly valid. Have not worked there myself, but have interviewed over the phone in the past (very negative experience). Yet, as a customer, I admire Amazon and consider them one of America's great companies. Could they really have gotten to this point by treating their rank-and-file like a disposable commodity? Could Apple?

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