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Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

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Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#61
post #15
post #4

> She was 35, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her 28-year-old manager that she had two weeks to get out. I think that's a bit funny that the author implies you can't be good as a manager at 28. Specially when you are writing an article about bias.

I think he doesn't need to imply it, firing someone without explanation is bad management, no matter how young or old you are.

Either that or proactive lawyers. California is a no-cause state. Only when you state a cause, can it be used against you for bias.

[Edit] Don't know about other states.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#62

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

Like the Silicon Valley TV show, the truthfulness of the specifics of this story aren't really the important part. If public perception of startups is as childish frat house like cults, that is a problem whether or not specific startups are in fact childish frat house like cults. I mean that is the exact reason why we use the phrase "frat house" as a pejorative regardless of the merits of specific fraternities.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#64
post #8

The philosopher Slavoj Žižek explains this with the ‘postmodern’ boss: >Not a master but just a coordinator of our joint creative efforts; the first among equals. There should be no formalities among us, we should address him by his nickname, he shares a dirty joke with us… but in all this, HE REMAINS OUR MASTER.

I love some zizek, what piece did that come from?

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#65

I don't know much about Hubspot, but Lyons should know that sudden firings without an explanation are not common. The norm is quarterly reviews, and firing only after you've had several negative ones. Extortion is obviously not common either... Content farms are also not common at solid companies - more typical of fly-by-night marketing-driven places without much real tech. The claim that there's a lot of pressure to…

It should be noted that he was in a sales role - even outside of tech companies, if you miss your numbers you don't stick around. Could be the culture was the same in engineering but I don't know if ou can compare the two roles.

As an aside: how long until you leave "startup" territory? Five years? Eight years? Ten years? Revenue number? Staff number?

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#66
So does the author think that everyone is great at their job? What do you do when you have an employee that can't do the work and you are confident that they won't improve?

Pointing out the age difference in the manager and the employee, and their sexes, is just baiting. Unless he wants to make the case that there was sexism or agism from the manager, or that the company engaged in sexism or agism, it is just a red herring. In fact, it's quite cowardly, since it implies something the author isn't willing to actually say.

Finally, the fact that the person who was fired was with the company for 4 years doesn't mean anything at all unless we also get the context. It may be that this person struggled from the beginning, and they hesitated and didn't fire her for four long years. Or it may be that they hired her to do some specific job, and that job went away, and despite repeated attempts she just could not manage to learn anything else.

The thesis that she was 'disposable' is just ludicrous. If she was good at her job, then the manager is just an idiot who is cutting his and the companies own throat, and we can't make a moral argument against stupidity. If she couldn't do the job then there is no reason to be discussing this. If she was borderline, we still can't make a moral case, since borderline situations are at worst slightly wrong.

So once you cut through the left handed implications, I don't think there is any argument left.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#68
post #6

> Imagine a frat house mixed with a kindergarten mixed with Scientology, and you have an idea of what it’s like [working at a startup]. Is this an accurate description? I feel this might be more of the well funded ones but would not know.

It varies. Some years back, I interviewed at a San Diego startup that was flying in a dozen people a week, with a $300 reward just for showing up, to go through a five-day interview process, at the end of which perhaps one or two would be offered the chance to work for them...for $50k a year. In San Diego.

Most of their employees lived together, 2-4 to an apartment, because they couldn't afford solo housing.

The CEO gave a speech on the first day where he explained that they paid poorly on purpose, because they wanted people who cared more about striving for excellence (or some such buzzword) than petty concerns like money or stability. And people ate it up.

So, yeah, some startups are totally run like ridiculous cults that prey on starry-eyed young tech grads. I'm sure there's many that are sane and reasonable, too. None of them have paid me to vacation in California, though.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like it's more about the manager having no clue than their age.

But what does it say about those that put these people in a position of power?

I haven't see many places that that only have incompetent managers and no incompetent employees. :)

Or alternatively, what does it say about people who have seen this culture for 4 years and are still there?

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#70
> I joined the company in 2013 after spending 25 years in journalism and getting laid off from a top position at Newsweek. I thought working at a start-up would be great. The perks! The cool offices!

> It turned out I’d joined a digital sweatshop, where people were packed into huge rooms, side by side, at long tables.

It sounds like this journalist failed to investigate their new job before Day 1...

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