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Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

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Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#31

Post by ianstormtaylor »

CPLX wrote: post #9
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #5

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

Yes he's doing PR for a book by telling bits and pieces of the same story in other media. That's what writers do for a living. If you genuinely want to get a read on the guy listen to this long form interview on Fresh Air from a couple days ago: http://www.npr.org/2016/04/05/473097951/laid-off-tech-journa... He comes across as quite lucid and nuanced in my opinion, and also credible, as he has been covering the tech…

Great interview, thanks for the link. Edited my comment above with a bit of your thinking. Thanks!

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#32

Post by BurningFrog »

skennedy wrote: post #6

> Imagine a frat house mixed with a kindergarten mixed with Scientology, and you have an idea of what it’s like [working at a startup]. Is this an accurate description? I feel this might be more of the well funded ones but would not know.

There are many different kinds of startups.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#33

Post by golergka »

pascalo wrote: post #15
hartator wrote: post #4

> She was 35, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her 28-year-old manager that she had two weeks to get out. I think that's a bit funny that the author implies you can't be good as a manager at 28. Specially when you are writing an article about bias.

I think he doesn't need to imply it, firing someone without explanation is bad management, no matter how young or old you are.

This is correct. However, it's still strane to mention ages in this context.

Just replace age descriptions with race descriptions to see how weird and out of place that is.

> She was white, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her latino manager that she had two weeks to get out.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#34

Post by ThomPete »

hartator wrote: post #4

> She was 35, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her 28-year-old manager that she had two weeks to get out. I think that's a bit funny that the author implies you can't be good as a manager at 28. Specially when you are writing an article about bias.

You can but it's extremely, extremely rare for the very simple fact that your primary skills as a manager is people skills and the ability to relate to other peoples situation. Something you normally won't be as developed at that point.

At 28 you have more experience than a 18 year old, but not much and def not enough to be able to relate to a 35 year old person in most cases.

So not sure I find it ironic. Rather I can relate as I have seen my share of managers and been myself for the last 22 years.

And yes older managers have problems too :)

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#35

Post by ghaff »

CPLX wrote: post #9
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #5

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

Yes he's doing PR for a book by telling bits and pieces of the same story in other media. That's what writers do for a living. If you genuinely want to get a read on the guy listen to this long form interview on Fresh Air from a couple days ago: http://www.npr.org/2016/04/05/473097951/laid-off-tech-journa... He comes across as quite lucid and nuanced in my opinion, and also credible, as he has been covering the tech…

I have a certain level of discomfort with embellished storytelling presented as journalism (think Tom Wolfe and Hunter S. Thompson though I don't put Dan at that level). And, in his book, Dan makes some cracks that are arguably reverse-ageist. That said, I find it's a cogent perspective even if it probably shouldn't be taken as literally accurate reportage.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#36

Post by ianstormtaylor »

guelo wrote: post #27
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #5

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

You're searching for a good adhominem attack, coming up empty, and asking for the startup community's help in taking him down.

No I'm not. I'm looking for more information, because I don't want to buy into outlandish-sounding PR articles on their basis alone. While you were writing this comment, I was editing my comment with insights from the interview that @CPLX linked to ;) and I agree with him.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#37

Post by rm999 »

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #5

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

He did start the book to sort of mock the company; from his NPR interview:

>when I first sold the book and start to write it, it was meant to be sort of a modern-day "Office Space ... I wanted to write just a funny story about being in a kooky company. It was just a comedy.

On one hand I think it's sort of disingenuous - the company culture was never a good fit for him and he shouldn't harm others because of his mistake (I know people who have had negative non-fiction stories written about them, and it can take a personal toll - I hope he left names and specifics out). It doesn't seem like HubSpot ever tries to hide their culture like Amazon has been known to do.

On the other hand, it really is an interesting story. I'm old enough that I'd never work at a place like HubSpot, so to me it's an interesting perspective on an interesting work environment that is common in the new millennial world. In other words, real journalism :)

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#38

Post by zeemonkee3 »

josh_carterPDX wrote: post #19
hartator wrote: post #4

> She was 35, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her 28-year-old manager that she had two weeks to get out. I think that's a bit funny that the author implies you can't be good as a manager at 28. Specially when you are writing an article about bias.

Having worked at a few startups I can relate to what the writer is saying (although I do agree the article is a bit slanted). It happens a lot in the tech world under the guise of "thinking differently" about management. I agree that age shouldn't matter, until you're 10-15 years older than your Manager who is completely out of their element, has no clue what they're doing, and you spend every day wondering how the f…

"We need to shake things up". Cue angry clients, schedules gone to shit, quitting developers, missing documentation...

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#39

Post by jasonlotito »

gmantom wrote: post #13

Look startups aren't perfect. You will most certainly work harder than at a large established firm. Your life balance will be no where near as good as at a large firm. But why are you electing to work at a startup? 1) You are getting some options and have the possibility of a big upside which does not exist at a large firm. 2) You want more responsibility and you will certainly get it in the form of wearing many hats…

Hubspot is not a startup. It's been around for 10 years. It has 700+ employees.

> Corporations are generally only after profits big or small.

Startups are generally only after growth, but only big.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#40

Post by jim-greer »

I don't know much about Hubspot, but Lyons should know that sudden firings without an explanation are not common. The norm is quarterly reviews, and firing only after you've had several negative ones.

Extortion is obviously not common either...

Content farms are also not common at solid companies - more typical of fly-by-night marketing-driven places without much real tech.

The claim that there's a lot of pressure to perform is more valid, but that's not unique to tech at all. The bias problems are also there at many companies (though I think racial bias is less common than age or gender).

Overall he seems to be generalizing from a company with an unusually bad culture.

(The extortion charges: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/03/23/documents-re...)

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