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Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

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Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#81
Gresham's law applies when businesses are legally compelled to accept better and worse money at the same rate. In your example with silver quarters, the businesses were compelled by the government to accept the new, worse coins at the same rate as the old, and thus the switch was made.

However absent legal force, different currencies trade at different rates, which are set by people buying and selling them. Since you cannot compel sellers to accept GD, GD will not trade one for one USD.

Unless of course you are buying back GD at at least one for one with USD to force the market price to your desired price.

Given that GD will be less valuable to sellers than USD (inherently and by design) it seems to follow that the value of GD to sellers will crash the moment you stop injecting USD into the system.

Is there a way you can get a massive amount of sellers to accept a massive amount of a rapidly depreciating currency without discounting it once you can no longer keep up with the required cash injections?

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#82

Gresham's law applies when businesses are legally compelled to accept better and worse money at the same rate. In your example with silver quarters, the businesses were compelled by the government to accept the new, worse coins at the same rate as the old, and thus the switch was made. However absent legal force, different currencies trade at different rates, which are set by people buying and selling them. Since you…

We will compel sellers to accept GD at par with USD through a legal contract. There's legal force, so Gresham's law can apply.

We're not going to be buying back GD at par.

Given that GD will be less valuable to sellers than USD (inherently and by design) it seems to follow that the value of GD to sellers will crash the moment you stop injecting USD into the system.

The plan is to continually inject USD into our reserves at a rate faster than the rate of GD attrition. The rate of GD attrition will decrease as the currency gains more and more traction.

By the time we removed the USD peg, Gresham Dollar would be a strong currency that can stand on its own.

If we don't end up making it that far, we enter into Disruption and Gresham Dollar might depreciate. We have a plan for how that would work (see other comments).

Is there a way you can get a massive amount of sellers to accept a massive amount of a rapidly depreciating currency without discounting it once you can no longer keep up with the required cash injections?

No. And we don't plan to.

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#83
post #82

Gresham's law applies when businesses are legally compelled to accept better and worse money at the same rate. In your example with silver quarters, the businesses were compelled by the government to accept the new, worse coins at the same rate as the old, and thus the switch was made. However absent legal force, different currencies trade at different rates, which are set by people buying and selling them. Since you…

We will compel sellers to accept GD at par with USD through a legal contract. There's legal force, so Gresham's law can apply. We're not going to be buying back GD at par. Given that GD will be less valuable to sellers than USD (inherently and by design) it seems to follow that the value of GD to sellers will crash the moment you stop injecting USD into the system. The plan is to continually inject USD into our reser…

I had missed the contract requirement for merchants to accept GD at 1-1 for USD. Thanks.

However, since you can't force a merchant to accept GD in payment for goods or services, it seems that as soon as the expected value of GD goes below a certain threshold, merchants would stop accepting it, and the currency would become valueless.

What am I missing here?

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#84
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will compel sellers to accept GD at par with USD through a legal contract. There's legal force, so Gresham's law can apply. We're not going to be buying back GD at par. Given that GD will be less valuable to sellers than USD (inherently and by design) it seems to follow that the value of GD to sellers will crash the moment you stop injecting USD into the system. The plan is to continually inject USD into our reser…

I had missed the contract requirement for merchants to accept GD at 1-1 for USD. Thanks. However, since you can't force a merchant to accept GD in payment for goods or services, it seems that as soon as the expected value of GD goes below a certain threshold, merchants would stop accepting it, and the currency would become valueless. What am I missing here?

We can't force merchants to accept GD payments, but they have a fairly strong incentive to. When we first launch, every GD in existence will be backed 100% by our USD reserves. It's free money. All of the GD the merchants receive, if they hold onto it, is guaranteed to convert into USD no matter what.

Once a currency is widely accepted as payment, there's a self-reinforcing network effect: "I value this currency because I know others will accept it as payment." The challenge lies in bootstrapping the currency to the point where the network effect can take over. We start by taking USD from our investors and handing it out to consumers who will spend it. But in the process, we package that USD inside GD.

So we start 100% backed by USD and then we ease up with time. As merchants come to rely on their GD revenue, they'll gradually be willing to accept slightly lower reserve requirements lest they lose all their Gresham Dollar business. And since the reserve requirements only come into play when our USD reserves get low, once merchants accept lower reserve requirements, they have skin in the game and an incentive to see Gresham Dollar succeed.

Note that any user can accept payment in GD. You don't have to have a merchant account. But non-merchant accounts are subject to the Activation Cap which limits the pace at which GD can convert into USD (e.g. $20/day). We remove the cap for merchant accounts, but in exchange they must set the same price in GD and USD.

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#85
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had missed the contract requirement for merchants to accept GD at 1-1 for USD. Thanks. However, since you can't force a merchant to accept GD in payment for goods or services, it seems that as soon as the expected value of GD goes below a certain threshold, merchants would stop accepting it, and the currency would become valueless. What am I missing here?

We can't force merchants to accept GD payments, but they have a fairly strong incentive to. When we first launch, every GD in existence will be backed 100% by our USD reserves. It's free money. All of the GD the merchants receive, if they hold onto it, is guaranteed to convert into USD no matter what. Once a currency is widely accepted as payment, there's a self-reinforcing network effect: "I value this currency beca…

Yes, in the initial phase, as long as you are putting USD into the system for merchants to cash out, it seems like it would work.

However, once you and investors stop funding GD, and the expected value of GD goes down, a merchant would then be selling goods paid for in USD, and receiving GD worth less than their USD cost. This would be a negative profit per sale and no volume effect of sales in GD would make up for this.

It would seem like at least at this point, merchants would stop accepting GD payments?

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#86
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't force merchants to accept GD payments, but they have a fairly strong incentive to. When we first launch, every GD in existence will be backed 100% by our USD reserves. It's free money. All of the GD the merchants receive, if they hold onto it, is guaranteed to convert into USD no matter what. Once a currency is widely accepted as payment, there's a self-reinforcing network effect: "I value this currency beca…

Yes, in the initial phase, as long as you are putting USD into the system for merchants to cash out, it seems like it would work. However, once you and investors stop funding GD, and the expected value of GD goes down, a merchant would then be selling goods paid for in USD, and receiving GD worth less than their USD cost. This would be a negative profit per sale and no volume effect of sales in GD would make up for t…

Merchants typically have margins of at least 35%, so they may make smaller profits, but probably not negative. It may be a discount, though the value of GD is not measured solely in it's USD value.

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#87
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these sort of measures could be built into the algorithms behind the management of the currency. The entire infrastructure could be run by bots. Cyber security will need to be tight, though probably not initially. As I understand it, this is about social justice, ie, leveling the playing field. Post-transition for GD would mean that all accounts are activated to receive basic income, and they would do so on a…

I think these sort of measures could be built into the algorithms behind the management of the currency. That's the idea. I'd like to set it up so that everyone can see that we couldn't abuse the system even if we wanted to. As I understand it, this is about social justice, ie, leveling the playing field. It's primarily about economic stability. Social justice is a side effect. Post-transition for GD would mean that…

What I understood was that, if GD is allowed to sit in an account, it will eventually convert to USD at the reserve rate for that account, thus losing value (assuming GD=USD in terms of purchasing power). Wouldn't this discourage people from keeping large sums of GD in their accounts?

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#88
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll take a small portion of the investments we receive and put it toward paying operation/capital expenses. The rest of it goes toward boosting our USD reserves. I won't get into specifics because I don't have the specifics worked out. Even if I did, they'd be boring. OK, but this could get problematic. The costs of operation and infrastructure will not be trivial, especially as the project grows beyond the bootstr…

The costs of operation and infrastructure will not be trivial, especially as the project grows beyond the bootstrapping phase. Hmm. These costs would be trivial compared to the total amount of USD we have in our reserves and the total amount of GD in circulation. I'd like the infrastructure to be as distributed as possible. As the central authority, we'd only be paying to operate the small part of the infrastructure…

Oh OK, this clears it up for me, thank you.

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#89
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these sort of measures could be built into the algorithms behind the management of the currency. That's the idea. I'd like to set it up so that everyone can see that we couldn't abuse the system even if we wanted to. As I understand it, this is about social justice, ie, leveling the playing field. It's primarily about economic stability. Social justice is a side effect. Post-transition for GD would mean that…

What I understood was that, if GD is allowed to sit in an account, it will eventually convert to USD at the reserve rate for that account, thus losing value (assuming GD=USD in terms of purchasing power). Wouldn't this discourage people from keeping large sums of GD in their accounts?

OK, your other comment clarified the point for me. I thought that you would lose GD after the 30days because only a percentage of it would convert. I guess I assumed that the rest would be lost instead of resetting or rolling over.

Re: Apply HN: Gresham Dollar – Viral Currency for Basic Income

#90
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't force merchants to accept GD payments, but they have a fairly strong incentive to. When we first launch, every GD in existence will be backed 100% by our USD reserves. It's free money. All of the GD the merchants receive, if they hold onto it, is guaranteed to convert into USD no matter what. Once a currency is widely accepted as payment, there's a self-reinforcing network effect: "I value this currency beca…

Yes, in the initial phase, as long as you are putting USD into the system for merchants to cash out, it seems like it would work. However, once you and investors stop funding GD, and the expected value of GD goes down, a merchant would then be selling goods paid for in USD, and receiving GD worth less than their USD cost. This would be a negative profit per sale and no volume effect of sales in GD would make up for t…

By design, as you say, Gresham Dollar will at first be considered an inferior currency to USD. This is important for the Gresham's Law effect.

All businesses have expenses and there's no reason why a given business wouldn't adopt a policy of spending GD before spending USD whenever possible. As more and more businesses start accepting Gresham Dollar, they'll start passing GD among themselves like a hot potato. Due to the mechanics of Gresham Dollar, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw very little GD automatically converting back into USD during this time.

Our goal, however, is for Gresham Dollar eventually to surpass USD and become the superior currency. After this happens, it no longer makes sense to peg Gresham Dollar to USD. When we remove the USD peg according to this plan (the Transition date), the value of Gresham Dollar will not crash.

Your concern, however, is with what happens if insufficient USD reserve levels force us to abandon the peg early perhaps before merchants can easily start passing around GD like a hot potato.

Yes, in the initial phase, as long as you are putting USD into the system for merchants to cash out, it seems like it would work.

Right. And this initial phase is perhaps our most vulnerable. Merchants may not have easy ways to spend their Gresham Dollars during this phase because there aren't enough other merchants who accept them. Instead, most merchants will let most of their GD expire and automatically convert to USD.

However, once you and investors stop funding GD, and the expected value of GD goes down, a merchant would then be selling goods paid for in USD, and receiving GD worth less than their USD cost.

Gresham Dollar's USD reserves are designed to be continuously crowd funded through the sale of FGD. Additionally we may boost our USD reserves through the Gresham Points system and our participation in the USD/GD market. Other than on the Transition date, there's no one cut-off point at which USD funding stops.

There is a hypothetical cut-off point (Disruption) at which, despite our best efforts, our USD reserve levels drop to exactly what's required to pay every USD according to their required reserve ratio. For example, if you're a merchant with a 90% required reserve ratio and $10,000 GD in your account when Disruption begins, $9,000 of your GD is still guaranteed to convert to USD if you hold on to it. The remaining $1,000 will only convert as USD reserves become available to back it.

This would be a negative profit per sale and no volume effect of sales in GD would make up for this.

During Disruption, merchants are not required to maintain price equality between GD and USD. The impact of Disruption depends on a lot of factors, but merchants would set their prices so as to avoid taking losses on their sales.

It would seem like at least at this point, merchants would stop accepting GD payments?

Some of them might. Most of them would probably just set GD prices higher than USD prices.

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