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Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

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31–40 of 168 posts

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myself and the other 3 main programmers in my last company all lacked a college degree. I think a degree is pretty useless for software development.

I appreciate the fact that yall made it without a degree. But I wouldnt say "useless". More like "not necessary". A software engineering or CS degree can be useful, but not necessary to have an excellent career.

Agreed. I was a pretty good programmer before I got a CS degree. But I can say, honestly, that my degree program (not even a particularly good one) made me a much better one. I've consistently ended up in roles where other people in those roles were five to ten years older than me, not because I'm a supergenius (jesus, I'm not) but because I was able to derive some real synergy from the academic fit-and-finish applied by college to my existing skill set, and the lessons I learned in school to the skills I've learned since.

And when I say "my courses", I don't just mean CS. I have a B.A., not a B.S., because I wanted more breadth than being a mushroom sweating it out in the computer science lab. I did pick up a lot of actually useful, practicable knowledge around algorithmic analysis (turns out that intuitively understanding Big-Oh is really useful if you don't want to be a bottom-level code grinder), distributed systems (there's a reason I'm still the guy who acquaintances go to when they need to build such a thing), and low-level computer architecture (which still has to matter to somebody even when you're using very high level languages), but the humanities were fantastically important, too. Political science and economics courses have been invaluable; poli-sci for having something of a mental map of groups and organizations and an idea of the way that they change and flow in a larger community, and economics from the perspective of microeconomics, specifically the study of elastic goods and demand curves in general.

I might have stumbled on what I learned in college, especially around "how to learn", without going to college, but I think it's more likely that I wouldn't, or that I would have dismissed it as unimportant, because one of the greatest benefits of college was twisting my arm to do things I didn't want want to do (and those were among them. I also graduated with under $30K of debt--state schools aren't that expensive and I'd been working summers--after four years, and paid it off by age 27, while working at companies that definitely would never have looked at me twice if I didn't have a degree and making a lot more money for it.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#32
I'm one of those poor kids who got out. My identity project was programming. An friend gave me a an old noisy Pentium II that became my best friend. I spent countless hours, day and night, learning to program. Skipped prom to program, dodged sports in high school, never attended parties. Programming was my identity. I started working before starting college. The prohibitive cost of college made me drop out to focus on my career on the first opportunity I had.

My current job as a software engineer pays well. I live a comfortable life and can afford things I never had but my lack of college degree also causes me to have a very bad impostor syndrome.

Maybe I should save up enough to go back to college and graduate.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#33
post #32

I'm one of those poor kids who got out. My identity project was programming. An friend gave me a an old noisy Pentium II that became my best friend. I spent countless hours, day and night, learning to program. Skipped prom to program, dodged sports in high school, never attended parties. Programming was my identity. I started working before starting college. The prohibitive cost of college made me drop out to focus o…

College doesn't "cure" imposter syndrome. I'm not sure what does.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#35
post #32

I'm one of those poor kids who got out. My identity project was programming. An friend gave me a an old noisy Pentium II that became my best friend. I spent countless hours, day and night, learning to program. Skipped prom to program, dodged sports in high school, never attended parties. Programming was my identity. I started working before starting college. The prohibitive cost of college made me drop out to focus o…

College doesn't "cure" imposter syndrome. I'm not sure what does.

Only time, I'd say. My best educated friends have Imposter syndrome the worst.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#36
post #29

I was born in a trailer park in Oklahoma. Lived in a 1 bedroom shack, and then lived with my grandparents until high school after my parents got divorced. I grew up very poor. But I loved computers, thanks to my dad having a Commodore 64. I excelled at math, loved computers, and went to DeVry to do computer programming. I was the first in my family to go to college. Started my first tech company at 22. With a lot of…

While it's cool that you've managed to do that, at the same time I think "with a lot of hard work" trivializes the amount of insanely hard work that large portions of the working class does do, with almost nothing to show for it. Poverty traps are real and they are very, very difficult to escape from, and in many ways it's destiny-by-dart-board.

I recall an anecdote about a college professor who had students pull cards out of a bucket. What card you pulled out of a bucket determined your fate as a person born during the Middle Ages. Most of the cards were peasant or died at age n (where n I used to joke with some of my fellow geeks (ok, I still do) that if we were born two or three hundred years earlier, we would have had a horrible life in the fields, farming.

Going back to why I replied, the sad fact about an information age economy is that working with information or your community (e.g. coding or using that information to trade) is leveraged and worth more than pure manual labor. At the highest level, you have CEOs with insane networks of personal relationships (I knew a family friend once who, with one phone call, got the best eye surgeon in the state to do an emergency operation on one of his friend's friends) and surgeons who can save lives. At the medium level, you have coders.

From a rational economics standpoint, everyone is expendable. But the replacement costs are quite high for those higher up the power-law curve of the information economy.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College doesn't "cure" imposter syndrome. I'm not sure what does.

Only time, I'd say. My best educated friends have Imposter syndrome the worst.

I think there's something to that. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

You also tend to be exposed to other well-educated people who are specialized in areas you are not.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#38
post #32

I'm one of those poor kids who got out. My identity project was programming. An friend gave me a an old noisy Pentium II that became my best friend. I spent countless hours, day and night, learning to program. Skipped prom to program, dodged sports in high school, never attended parties. Programming was my identity. I started working before starting college. The prohibitive cost of college made me drop out to focus o…

Hello younger me.

I did go back to college and graduated. It didn't help with the impostor syndrome. It did fill in some gaps in my knowledge and opened a few career doors for me though. It was worth it, but that was due in large part to the fact that I chose to go do the first two years at community college and the last two at an inexpensive regional school.

A bit of encouragement, it is totally possible to go to school full-time while working full-time if you really want to. It just means you miss the parties and other social stuff (which I had pretty much aged out of by that point anyway).

Keep on hacking brother.

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#39

I was born in a trailer park in Oklahoma. Lived in a 1 bedroom shack, and then lived with my grandparents until high school after my parents got divorced. I grew up very poor. But I loved computers, thanks to my dad having a Commodore 64. I excelled at math, loved computers, and went to DeVry to do computer programming. I was the first in my family to go to college. Started my first tech company at 22. With a lot of…

I'd qualify it by saying:

"With a lot of hard work, and the legal freedom to move away, anyone can break out of poverty."

Staying in the same place (sounds like your grandparents were kick ass people) is pretty much the death sentence and many people, after certain youthful indiscretions may not be permitted to leave the area.

Plus, you're white so I'm guessing you've never been detained for "matching the description".

Re: Why Do Some Poor Kids Thrive?

#40
post #32

I'm one of those poor kids who got out. My identity project was programming. An friend gave me a an old noisy Pentium II that became my best friend. I spent countless hours, day and night, learning to program. Skipped prom to program, dodged sports in high school, never attended parties. Programming was my identity. I started working before starting college. The prohibitive cost of college made me drop out to focus o…

You should definitely consider the University of London International programme [1]. It's a distance learning course thats totally compatible with working at the same time, costs less than $8000 for the 3-year degree, and UK degrees are usually counted as equivalent to US degrees with regards to employment or further study. I'm just completing my first year of the course now. I've studied at some pretty good schools, including UCLA and London Business School, and I would say the standard of the curriculum at the University of London is high. You're essentially just paying for the curriculum, 2 assignments and a final exam, with only a little bit of learning support, mostly you're on your own in terms of learning, but you have the whole internet available, right? :) That's why it's so cheap, you're not paying for any 'general education' classes, and there are no fancy rec centers or climbing walls :)

The final year courses include courses on machine learning, NLP, 'advanced optimization', which I'm looking forward to.

If anyone wants more info, feel free to message me.

[1] http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/g...

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