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The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

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Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#71

Post by etherael »

lasermike026 wrote: post #28

How do I short the US government?

If you still believe in the core concept of a state, but just believe the US is a particularly bad one, invest in other governments with opposing, or non-aligned geopolitical / economic interests. Iran, Russia, Brazil, India, China (and/or corporate entities therein) are good places to start.

If you believe the entire model is intrinsically flawed and doomed to eventual failure, cryptocurrencies if you're technologically optimistic, or precious metals if you're not.

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#72

Post by xnull2guest »

Somehow people are just catching on to this. I was amazed and deeply disappointed by the appointment of Cass Sunstein. He wrote a freaking book entitled "The Problem of Free Speech" and actively justifies state infiltration and 'providing direction' to online political discourse among the US citizen base (among other things).

Though its not this administration either. The Bust Administration before it drew up many broad interpretations of law, including the laws that have since been used for censorship (first in "Free Speech Zones" but since at Occupy and the media free zones around Ferguson).

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#74

Post by ctlby »

setpatchaddress wrote: post #27
Agustus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he was elected, I was happy, perhaps he could enact the changes that needed to be made to reign in some of the spying, ridiculous defense contracts, and other items. I based this on the "not red or blue country" speech at the DNC convention. That hope passed quickly when he made the "I won" comment to the Republicans instead of just assuaging or listening to their now valid concerns. I would argue that the obstr…

Obama made clear as early as the 2008 primaries that he wasn't going to be very good on civil liberties. (But he didn't have to be this bad.) What valid concerns did Republicans have during the past eight years? Do tell. I've not heard of a single one. Trump is the inevitable outcome of 50 years of racist, belligerent fear mongering and bad-faith governance on the part of the Republicans. You can draw a straight line…

They're on point about his general lawlessness. It started with the Chrysler bailout (almost as soon as he walked into office!), and it continues to this day with e.g. the retroactive provisions in his latest anti-inversion proposal.

> Trump is the inevitable outcome of 50 years of racist, belligerent fear mongering

Trump is the inevitable outcome of eight years of liberal grievance peddling. His supporters are just trying to claim their share of the spoils of victimhood.

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#75

Post by OliverJones »

In the article, Mr. Toomey wrote this:

"The government assumes that any communication entering or leaving the country has a foreigner on one end — and thus is eligible for warrantless searching. As the new Brennan Center report makes clear, the implications of this position are especially dire given the global structure of the Internet, where even Americans’ domestic communications may be routed or stored abroad without the parties to those communications even knowing. "

He's correct. This position is dire. It also works in reverse. Any communication between two non-US residents that happens to transit the US is also subject to surveillance. Given the way global packet networks function, that means that almost any communication could be subject to surveillance under this legal theory.

As US networking companies' foreign customers have understood, that's an unacceptable -- and sometimes illegal -- risk. These policies haven't been good for US network business.

And, pretty soon the NSA could have T. Cruz or D. Trump at the head of the government they control.

Is there some reason the US security apparatus can't legislate in public? Is there some reason they can't make the case "here's why we are trustworthy"? They haven't even TRIED to make that case.

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#76

Post by th0waway »

setpatchaddress wrote: post #27
Agustus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he was elected, I was happy, perhaps he could enact the changes that needed to be made to reign in some of the spying, ridiculous defense contracts, and other items. I based this on the "not red or blue country" speech at the DNC convention. That hope passed quickly when he made the "I won" comment to the Republicans instead of just assuaging or listening to their now valid concerns. I would argue that the obstr…

Obama made clear as early as the 2008 primaries that he wasn't going to be very good on civil liberties. (But he didn't have to be this bad.) What valid concerns did Republicans have during the past eight years? Do tell. I've not heard of a single one. Trump is the inevitable outcome of 50 years of racist, belligerent fear mongering and bad-faith governance on the part of the Republicans. You can draw a straight line…

haaaaaaaaa! Might as well say Obama is the inevitable outcome of 50 years of narcissistic, pansy, Me First hippies.

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#77

Post by th0waway »

criley2 wrote: post #31
Agustus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he was elected, I was happy, perhaps he could enact the changes that needed to be made to reign in some of the spying, ridiculous defense contracts, and other items. I based this on the "not red or blue country" speech at the DNC convention. That hope passed quickly when he made the "I won" comment to the Republicans instead of just assuaging or listening to their now valid concerns. I would argue that the obstr…

>"if they had not stirred up the hornet's nest of populism from the right through the healthcare act fiasco" To blame the President for this is ridiculous. Our centrist President promoted a conservative think-tank idea battle tested in the laboratory of a large state, and was ridiculed as a marxist and a communist who was on the level of stalin. No hyperbole, these very attacks and words have become so common in cons…

wait wait, I got this: It's Bush's fault!!!!

Nothing is EVER Obama's fault. Unless it's good, then He Did That.

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#78

Post by specialist »

mdturnerphys wrote: post #59
actsasbuffoon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the nuance of your argument. It's a good point in general, and I personally don't fit cleanly into any existing party. That said, I think we can reasonably propose that most of the sound and fury over the ACA was political theater. Mitt Romney wasn't decried when he passed a nearly identical law in Massachussetts. In fact, the RNC chose Romney to run against Obama in 2012, so it clearly didn't hurt him m…

This kind of argument seems to ignore the idea of federalism and limits on federal power. Just because something might be a good idea for one state doesn't mean that it's a good idea (or constitutional) at a federal level.

This kind of concern trolling seems to ignore the idea of loosely coupled nation states which have already implemented a variety of superior health care systems. Costs less, their people are more healthy. What I like to call "existence proofs". Just because ACA is a terrible idea for one nation doesn't mean that sole implementing nation should then hide behind exceptionalism (NIH) or weird textualism legal constructs and pretend what meager progress has been made so far is in some way radical.

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#79

Post by pc86 »

dmix wrote: post #25
hartator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or he can be just bad at leading changes.

Or the US has a weak political system compared to multi-party systems in better functioning democracies, such as Canada.

The political system was designed from the beginning to be weak based on what the founders had left. A very specific set of powers granted to the federal government but split between three often opposed branches. The remaining power defaulting to the states but still separated by largely the same system of checks of balances, and often with the two systems (state/fed) themselves opposed.

The system was never designed to be one where you could implement massive changes overnight.

Re: The Obama Administration Has Embraced Legal Theories Broader Than John Yoo's

#80

Post by knodi123 »

bsbechtel wrote: post #17
actsasbuffoon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the healthcare act fiasco The Affordable Care Act was based on RomneyCare, which in turn was based on model legeslation from ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Counsel). They're a conservative organization that writes bills and gives them to republicans to propose. The republican reaction was just showmanship; a cry of indignation for the sake of the cameras.

I can't speak for the OP, but he may not be talking about the actual law or it's basis, but the execution of it, which has been a fiasco. We're 3 years into it, and insurance agents and "qualified" healthcare navigators still don't know what they're doing because it's so complicated. Never mind the security issues and complete lack of usability that is the healthcare.gov marketplace.

> complete lack of usability that is the healthcare.gov marketplace

Oh come now. This is ridiculous hyperbole, and even the underlying idea is pretty weak at this point. I used the marketplace last June and it presented information clearly and effectively, and I had no problems going from zero to well-informed and insured in no time at all.

The launch may have been a fiasco, but it's a pretty good site today.

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