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How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#161

Post by SixSigma »

kefka wrote: post #116
SeanDav wrote: post #55

If, during the entire history of the USA, some FBI agents had never been proven to be corrupt, if judges had never been proven to be corrupt, if evidence had never been proved to be planted by authorities, then maybe, just maybe this would be justified. In the real world, however, this is very, very scary and I consider myself lucky I am not subject to this travesty. Since there does not appear to be any proof that h…

My view of having a mens rea requirement with child porn statues are derided with comments like: "Congratulations, you're now on an FBI watch list." ( (s)he did agree with me) Yet if there is no guilty mind, there should be no crime. Frankly possession of CP shouldn't be a crime at all, because it is proof of a crime. Snuff videos aren't illegal. Rape videos (of 18+) aren't illegal. Just horrible videos are that: hor…

> Rape videos (of 18+) aren't illegal. Just horrible videos are that: horrible. They aren't illegal.

They are in the UK. sigh

EDIT: oops, believed the hype

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#162

Post by SixSigma »

tajen wrote: post #153
kazagistar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the binary choice clusterfuck that is modern politics is certainly the fault of the founders, and is certainly partially responsible for the current problems. And because of the reverence of the founders and the constitution as it exists, the self destruction and rebirth is looking likelier then meaningfully repairing the system.

Tomorrow we'll have infinite disdain for binary-party democracies, just like we currently have for monoparty democracies. It baffles me that people still immigrate to Singapore. What a total disrespect for a thousand years fighting for the right to vote.

I guess it's not so bad if you can leave when you feel like it. Singapore is a cool place if you're on the right side.

Dubai is another even more extreme example.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#163

Post by DanBC »

SixSigma wrote: post #161
kefka wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My view of having a mens rea requirement with child porn statues are derided with comments like: "Congratulations, you're now on an FBI watch list." ( (s)he did agree with me) Yet if there is no guilty mind, there should be no crime. Frankly possession of CP shouldn't be a crime at all, because it is proof of a crime. Snuff videos aren't illegal. Rape videos (of 18+) aren't illegal. Just horrible videos are that: hor…

> Rape videos (of 18+) aren't illegal. Just horrible videos are that: horrible. They aren't illegal. They are in the UK. sigh EDIT: oops, believed the hype

Only if they're actually rape. People can give consent for BDSM style role play video.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/5/crossheadi...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/2/section/37/enacte...

And there are some limited defences of images of actual rape - a 3rd party secretly planting the material doesn't count.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#164

Post by soperj »

jnbiche wrote: post #158
soperj wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hahaha. I think most people would take those problems any day. Sorry your buddy had his feelings hurt.

Wow, have you ever been fired? In this day and age when we see successful people in the tech industry dealing with suicide and depression on a regular basis due to work-related issues, that's a pretty insensitive attitude to have. For the record, my friend was a C-level executive but not CEO, did not get a multi-million dollar severance (less than a million), and for someone who based his entire identity on his job a…

I have, they didn't give me a red cent after firing me. Also the majority of people in this world have trouble eating day to day. I could probably live the rest of my life on less than a million and never have to work again, so I don't really feel a whole lot of pity for a guy that I don't know, getting paid more than the vast majority will make in a life time simply because he was fired.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#165

Post by [deleted] »

soperj wrote: post #164
jnbiche wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, have you ever been fired? In this day and age when we see successful people in the tech industry dealing with suicide and depression on a regular basis due to work-related issues, that's a pretty insensitive attitude to have. For the record, my friend was a C-level executive but not CEO, did not get a multi-million dollar severance (less than a million), and for someone who based his entire identity on his job a…

I have, they didn't give me a red cent after firing me. Also the majority of people in this world have trouble eating day to day. I could probably live the rest of my life on less than a million and never have to work again, so I don't really feel a whole lot of pity for a guy that I don't know, getting paid more than the vast majority will make in a life time simply because he was fired.

[deleted]

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#166

Post by abyd »

FbI traffics in child porn. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/21/fbi-ran-websit... They fabricate evidence when they cannot make a case. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-fbi-entrapment... This is obviously coercion. Connecting the porn files to one of their websites would be very beneficial to the defense, and something I would love to see in the court record.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#167

Post by abyd »

boosting7669 wrote: post #75
SeanDav wrote: post #55

If, during the entire history of the USA, some FBI agents had never been proven to be corrupt, if judges had never been proven to be corrupt, if evidence had never been proved to be planted by authorities, then maybe, just maybe this would be justified. In the real world, however, this is very, very scary and I consider myself lucky I am not subject to this travesty. Since there does not appear to be any proof that h…

And yet a jury convicted him. This kind of thing is far beyond the comprehension of the common juror. Knowing what I know about computer security and how EASY it is to plant digital evidence without leaving a trace, even from thousands of miles away, I'd have to see video evidence of the defendant downloading the material as it happens before rendering such a verdict, especially if it's going to mean decades in priso…

Most people stop listening at "child porn". All the prosecution has to do is say a scary word and it's all over.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#168

Post by abyd »

patcheudor wrote: post #134
maqr wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tell your browser to not download images: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/981640 This would disable all images, but that's what you want, because you can never tell if a site you're going to has been compromised and what content they're going to serve up until you've already downloaded it. This doesn't completely solve the problem though, you'd also need to make sure you don't have Flash or Java,…

This advice tends to be akin to the advise to disable JavaScript. Basically at this point why are you even on the Internet? Also, as you mentioned Flash, Java, and especially SVG. The only real mitigation here is full drive encryption with a long passphrase which you'll never give up. Of course in the eyes of the courts and public that's a serious double-edged sword because you are assumed guilty at that point.

This is a good argument for Full disk encryption with a vpn and dns leak protection. You're right about people using encryption too. They have a whole playbook dedicated to targeting encryption(physical access is page one).

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#169

Post by mindslight »

chroma wrote: post #154
mindslight wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the exact details spread, it could be a global catastrophe. I'm totally fine with this information being restricted And yet such criminalization won't stop someone actually determined to use it. If your security relies on preventing the spread of readily-available information, you've already lost. Your argument only seems practical for this situation because the only entities in possession of said information ar…

Well, that was interesting. I certainly can't call you inconsistent. Now I'm just curious: Is there any scenario in which you think possession of a physical or digital asset should result in imprisonment? That is: Is possession of a fuel-air bomb OK? My mere possessing it doesn't harm anyone, only my use of it would. What about possession of a nuclear weapon, or some device that could exterminate all life on earth? I…

I've pondered this before in the context of 2A and nuclear weapons, and I concluded it ultimately comes down to stewardship. An individual can't cover the damage from accidental use of a nuclear weapon (nor the collateral damage from deliberate use). Likewise an apartment-dweller with conventional explosives. But an individual in a rural area has enough space to casually detonate explosives for fun, and damage from accidental detonation is limited to their property. The level of nuclear weapons is of course stretching the limit of our abstractions - eg USG didn't contain the fallout from various nuclear tests.

Regulating possession should be solely based on what harms the possession itself causes, not hypothetical damages from the worst possible deliberate use. There are specific laws for those specific actions and even "conspiracy" etc for policing precrime. Contrast with the ongoing age-old pattern for inciting moral panic of myopically emphasizing an outgroup's artifacts (eg broomsticks and cats), and encouraging the panicked herd to fill in the worst possible action they can think of.

Addressing the original subject, if we adjust the focus to the presumed action - "masturbating to pictures of children" - it's less ambiguously frightening, and more pathetic and needing of compassion/mental help. That's a saner framework for debating intervention in what individuals do behind closed doors.

For "uploads in agony" - if this is possible how do you propose to stop it, short of destroying any powerful-enough computing device? I mean, I certainly hope it is not possible, or that most people personally realize it's wrong, or the ones who don't won't spend many resources on it. But if it does become a larger phenomenon, then I think our abstractions about morality will be lost to the general amorality of nature.

We're currently only in a censorship renaissance due to negligent technical architectures based on centralizing protocols like HTTP/DNS. Information in general is not so easily contained, and when the (de)centralization pendulum finally swings back I hope this reality becomes undeniable to those mini-dictators residing in every democracy-addled mind.

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