Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#101

Post by anexprogrammer » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #93

anexprogrammer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If done at least semi-officially it could equally be a way to bring back lapsed players as much as any splitting of user base. Many leave in major updates or exciting new releases. WoW lost loads since LK. In other games LotRO horse riding update lost 30% of the users. GW2 redesigned for the intellectually challenged. I'm sure some would want to come back to the game before it was wrecked. Maybe not so much GW2 - it…

Still to put WOW in perspective with other games you list, WOW's population loss and gains around expansions tends to be higher in number than other games ever achieve. Games age and taste change too. Blizzard has done an amazing job to see so many millions of players interested. The one surprise to me is how low of level their free play is limited to.

Oh very true. Somehow they made it achieve the same as most of the rest of the MMO space together. Never quite saw why as, well, I never got hooked on it, so left early. One of the kids is still hooked on WOW and won't let us kill the sub even now!

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#102

Post by debacle » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 3:41 PM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #91

zanny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that is an argument about expansions in the first place? Significant player dropoffs in WoW happen in the last patches before new expansions. The userbase usually spikes up on new releases, but almost always drops lower every time, predominately because new releases gate players who were on old versions against those on the new one. Friends stop being interested, unsub, and never come back because the player…

On the flip side, you've got the EVE Online model. Expansions are released every 6-8 months as "super-patches". Like every MMO it's mandatory to be playing on the latest version, but everyone gets it for "free". It's pretty simple to avoid the problem of having players scattered across multiple content sets and levelcaps: stop bleeding your players dry. What are subscription fees paying for if not ongoing development…

Blizzard releases paid expansions because people will pay for them.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#103

Post by debacle » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #76

unknownzero wrote: post #37

It's worth noting amidst all the debate about whether it's feasible or worthwhile to offer older versions of the game as server options, blizzard has already done this for a long time with Diablo 2. You could (can still) choose to play classic or expansion on the legit battle net servers, and both had ( possibly still have ) vibrant communities. So it's not like this would be particularly novel as an idea to them, I'…

with their constantly dropping subscription numbers it might just be a good idea for them business wise to open specific expansion set servers.

I would honestly pay to play pre-BC WoW again.

The real problem that Blizzard seems to have is listening to their users - they're constantly making changes based on the feedback of vocal groups of players or trying to simplify their games to be more appealing. They have some of the most valuable IP in gaming and I feel like they're not making the most of it.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#104

Post by sheepleherd » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

EugeneOZ wrote: post #51

yarou wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate on your reasoning? The people playing on Nostalrius aren't suddenly going to switch to the latest expansion, so there's literally zero incentive for them to go after it.

It's exactly main reason: Blizzard have right to control the history and evolution of the WoW universe. Players can still play on old locations even on official servers, but things like game balance, economics - it's all was made by Blizzard and they have right to change it, for good or bad.

you sound like a libertarian invoking libertarian principles which I don't agree with so I don't see the "obviousness" of it that you see.

Even if Blizzard hired Howard Roark himself as their architect, seems to me I should be able to make alterations to the design of my own building in which I wish to park a Howard Roark designed car, no matter how angry it makes Howard, Eugene, and Blizzard.

And a court may rule in my favor even if you seem to think I should take your word on it, from your perspective of the zany libertariangasm you guys get from thinking about the ownership of ideas and not having anybody tell you what you can't do so long as you get to tell other people what they can't do.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#105

Post by electroly » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 4:19 PM UTC

pluma wrote: post #73

victorp13 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fake account.

It's not verified but I'm missing the obvious clue as to why you think it's fake. They seem to post genuine tweets and link to official marketing websites.

All of Blizzard's accounts are verified. Their official corporate account is @blizzard_ent (note the "t").

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#106

Post by na85 » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #36

kibwen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal intuition is that splitting your userbase like this is disastrous for a game in the long-term (to say nothing of my intuition that 90% of people longing for "the old days" are just looking for a quick hit of nostalgia, with no intent to pay long-term). However, it's worth mentioning that Runescape now officially offers a "classic" version of the game alongside (and separate from) the modern version, which…

You know that is an argument about expansions in the first place? Significant player dropoffs in WoW happen in the last patches before new expansions. The userbase usually spikes up on new releases, but almost always drops lower every time, predominately because new releases gate players who were on old versions against those on the new one. Friends stop being interested, unsub, and never come back because the player…

Blizzard isn't and never has been trying to create a "living world". That dream died when Ultima Online showed us exactly what players will do in an unscripted world that's as close to living as the tech of the time would permit.

WoW was, from the outset, designed to railroad players through content theme parks and give a hit of dopamine just often enough to keep them playing.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#107

Post by jayd16 » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

Meekro wrote: post #4

I used to be involved with this sort of thing, and it's actually pretty interesting stuff. There are enormous open source projects, operating largely out of public sight, that have recreated the WoW server backend in most of its glory. The lower-level content works quite well these days, though a lot of complex raid scripts are missing or broken. This one is probably the most popular: https://github.com/TrinityCore/T…

One could argue that the Lich King was the last "good" patch for WoW. What I've never understood though was there is clearly some residual demand for "down rev" versions of the game where the mechanics favored a more engaged play style, why not facilitate it? How much does it really cost to run a single realm at the Vanilla, TBC, and LK levels? So many new players where their first experience with Onxyia was soloing…

Not a terrible idea. Maybe a "seasonal" server that runs through the expansions every 6 months.

That said, I'm sure maintaining different versions of the servers would actually be a huge pain. The live ops was most likely not a solved problem at the end of an expansion.

It would take a lot of back porting security patches as well as bringing certain things forward like connecting to the current bnet.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#108

Post by Elhana » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 4:36 PM UTC

thenomad wrote: post #78

eterm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a patch they loved and was a peak for them. There are people who joined during cataclysm and think that was the best before "Panda" ruined the game. Plenty of people think BC was the peak and LK ruined everything. I personally think ICC was amazing and the peak, because that's when I played. MMO experiences are always the best when they are novel, there is something really special about the first time yo…

Counterpoint: I played since a month after Vanilla launched until about half-way through WoD. By your logic I should be a hardcore "Vanilla was the best" player, but actually, I'd argue that most of the game peaked in TBC (the first expansion) and raiding peaked in Wrath.

MMORPGs was always about grind-to-win, ideally forcing a group play along the way - that built communities. Blizzard kinda killed that turning the game into a solo adventure - most people just logged in for a raid and be gone for the rest of the week and those casual pug raids was the last nail into the coffin of social bit, that actually kept me playing.

I've had enough in Cataclysm, but I can't really say if vanilla, tbc or lk was the best (ignoring my personal achievements in each of those, tbc was the peak of my raiding). All of those bring good memories.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#109

Post by Falcon9 » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #102

paulmd wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, you've got the EVE Online model. Expansions are released every 6-8 months as "super-patches". Like every MMO it's mandatory to be playing on the latest version, but everyone gets it for "free". It's pretty simple to avoid the problem of having players scattered across multiple content sets and levelcaps: stop bleeding your players dry. What are subscription fees paying for if not ongoing development…

Blizzard releases paid expansions because people will pay for them.

Yeah, it's hard to make the business case for leaving money on the table - with every expansion comes change and change much more than the expansion cost is really what is causing the gating effect.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#110

Post by djsumdog » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 5:01 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #100

Meekro wrote: post #4

I used to be involved with this sort of thing, and it's actually pretty interesting stuff. There are enormous open source projects, operating largely out of public sight, that have recreated the WoW server backend in most of its glory. The lower-level content works quite well these days, though a lot of complex raid scripts are missing or broken. This one is probably the most popular: https://github.com/TrinityCore/T…

> It's pretty rare for Blizzard to go after these companies in court Blizzard is actually the company that set the precedent of going after these companies in court (bnetd [1]), and I can't think of a single company that has gone after these types of projects (private servers) more than Blizzard. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd

I was thinking of bnetd when I saw the title.

Bnetd set a horrible prescient IMO. You have the court saying reverse engineering a protocol and creating a clone of it was essentially illegal. The software which, was both free and open source, was now infringing if it was published (even though it was a totally original work).

You can sill find the bnetd source code around here and there for people who made copies. I've been at LAN parties where we cranked one up and ran old copies of Blizzard games.

I was thinking of publishing a legal paper on this a few years back; started some preliminary work with a friend who was a lawyer in NZ, but it kinda all fell through the cracks.

Interestingly, I wonder what would have happened had this project been based in NZ instead. Software patents are illegal there .. but, they did illegally spy on Kim dotcom (then change the laws so it wasn't illegal anymore), impounded his servers on behalf of the US (coughmovieindustrycough) government. He lost his extradition trial, so he now faces extradition...for copyright infringement. They are extraditing a man, for a non-criminal, civil violation. (Don't get me wrong, he's kinda a dick and his CD was terrible, but the whole case is bullshit...plus he's fucking hilarious).