Live data from Hacker News

More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

wsj.com

411–420 of 441 posts

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#411
post #404

I have several reactions to this report. First of all, I think it demonstrates that American university tuition is way too high. So much of that money goes toward things like sports teams, climbing walls, emotional support dogs, and other things that just don't have to be a part of the college experience. American universities have an unbelievable amount of staff that isn't about education or research. The thing is,…

> So much of that money goes toward things like sports teams, climbing walls, emotional support dogs, and other things that just don't have to be a part of the college experience.

Just to nit-pick (I agree with everything else), but athletic department finances are usually separate from the rest of the university, at least in D1 sports. And, having a good football or basketball team will increase applications and enrollment (e.g. see the 2nd sentence in http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2005/02/appli...). I think the thought is that if a university doesn't have these amenities, their enrollment will decrease and be lost to those that do. It is a vicious cycle.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#412
post #47

> The Education Department has assembled a “behavioral sciences unit” to study the psychology of borrowers and why they don’t repay. Ha! There is a bit of a hypocrisy there -- if big banks / companies piss away money and choose to strategically default then (and some even get bail-outs), it is just business. If people do it for whatever reason, well clearly the are immoral, deficient somehow, their psychology needs t…

It seems like you are arguing in favor of people even with the ability to pay back a loan, simply deciding not to because they don't want to. If that's accurate, it is absolutely disgusting.

This is not about TARP. It's not about taxpayer-funded bailouts of whatever industry the royal you happens to dislike today.

There are two completely separate obligations in play.

1. The legal (civil) obligation: There should be stiff penalties for people who decide not to pay back a student loan because "LOL TARP." Especially if it's a loan where the government ends up on the hook. Wage garnishments and sub-500 credit scores seem appropriate. Not to mention the fact that signing a prom

2. The moral obligation: You said you'd pay it back. Keep your word. Despite extenuating circumstances, you're just a plain old bad person otherwise.

None of this applies to people who can't pay back the loan because they're a barista with a law degree. I think we need to look at why they spent the money they did on a degree that is apparently doing nothing for them but regardless they don't have the ability.

But they're in for a world of hurt when the loan is forgiven and they have a 4 figure (or higher) tax bill from the IRS for the income.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your parents never talk to you about this kind of thing? I have already had this discussion with my 10 year old. For what it's worth, I never went to college but I understand the importance of compound interest and understanding financial contracts which involve you.

I hope your ten year old has more options available than "go to college and take a gamble on being underwater" or "learn a vocation and hope you retire before it's swallowed by outsourcing or automation." Despite the statistics, there is no obvious choice here. Why are the wise old people encouraging young people to choose the path their generation just got screwed out of? This generation of students has only ever he…

> I hope your ten year old has more options available than "go to college and take a gamble on being underwater" or "learn a vocation and hope you retire before it's swallowed by outsourcing or automation."

There are still many state schools w/ scholarships that are low priced; or upper tier schools if the family doesn't make enough money.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#414
post #13

Not surprising. Lots of kids are holding out hoping that someone will get elected and wave a wand to magically erase the money they borrowed.

"Lots of kids are..." More like... lots of people are making up absurd statements based on their perception of a political candidate. I don't know of a single, single person who is supporting Bernie because they think he's going to post-defacto erase their college debt. Especially since that's not even something he's ever suggested. But yeah, I'm sure "lots of kids" are holding out for that. You should've thrown in t…

I'm still waiting on my free Obama-phone.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer now. I majored in math. I've literally had recruiters tell me they couldn't offer me an interview because I didn't study "computers," including once at a college career fair. I wanted to tell that woman about the people who invented computers, but I held my tongue as she threw my résumé back at me.

I am surprised that you would not be well-served by a math degree from a half-decent institution, and very skeptical that your degree has not actually helped you obtain your career, versus not having any baccalaureate degree at all. I've worked with software engineers senior to myself who had B.A.s or Ph.D.'s in math and no degrees with the letters C and S in them, including a few younger, fairly recent graduates. I…

> Pardon, but you seem a little bitter.

They seem extremely bitter with little justification, to be honest.

> I suspect you have no idea how good you have it, compared to say, most graduates with a degree in humanities from an expensive liberal arts college.

Poli Sci degree from an expensive liberal arts college checking in. Ask me how many sub-$40k/yr programming jobs I've taken because they're all I could get with a Poli Sci degree.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#416
At least part of the problem, in my opinion, is that youth receive basically zero "financial education" in high school.

My girlfriend is 21 years old and just a couple of years out of high school. I can only recall being taught the basics myself: how to make a budget, balance a checkbook, etc. She apparently did not even receive that.

I'm much older than her (37) and, while I'm certainly not "rich" by any means, I'm financially stable and everything I own is completely paid for (ironically, my only remaining debt is my student loans).

She has only recently became interested in the basics of financial matters, such as her credit report and credit score, how loans and credit cards work, etc. Initially, I was amazed at her lack of knowledge in this area. It's not that she's dumb or stupid, she was just never taught anything about finances. She is, fortunately, relatively mature for her age and manages her money well. She has worked since she was first able to and has maintained steady employment and, for some reason, lately acquired an interest in her credit score and increasing it (although it's actually pretty decent for her age).

So we've recently started working on her credit history which, of course, was completely non-existent until she took out a small loan from her credit union for a cheap, used vehicle (with her father as a co-signer) about a year ago. She shops at Victoria's Secret often, so we got her a store credit card from there with a small ($500) credit limit to help her started. I've explained how credit utilization, payment history, etc. factors into her score, so she'll put her purchases (always She completed a vocational program in high school and is already a licensed cosmetologist; we've talked a bit about whether she'll go to college or not (she's already somewhat "behind", in that she didn't go straight to college after high school) but not how it will be funded if she does. If or when that time comes, I'm glad that I'll be around to help her come up with a plan that won't require her to spend the next 20 years paying for it. I can easily see how a typical 18-year-old about to go off to college just blindly signs up for student loans without any true understanding of just what they're committing to financially and without any idea of how long after they complete their education that it will continue to them.

TL;DR: I got kinda sidetracked there for a minute but my point was that today's high school students receive nearly zero financial education or guidance before heading off to college. I am not surprised at all by the facts and figures detailed in this article.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#417
post #412
post #47

> The Education Department has assembled a “behavioral sciences unit” to study the psychology of borrowers and why they don’t repay. Ha! There is a bit of a hypocrisy there -- if big banks / companies piss away money and choose to strategically default then (and some even get bail-outs), it is just business. If people do it for whatever reason, well clearly the are immoral, deficient somehow, their psychology needs t…

It seems like you are arguing in favor of people even with the ability to pay back a loan, simply deciding not to because they don't want to. If that's accurate, it is absolutely disgusting. This is not about TARP. It's not about taxpayer-funded bailouts of whatever industry the royal you happens to dislike today. There are two completely separate obligations in play. 1. The legal (civil) obligation: There should be…

> 2. The moral obligation: You said you'd pay it back. Keep your word. Despite extenuating circumstances, you're just a plain old bad person otherwise.

That's exactly the problem. You are applying guilt and morality to people (and not just you, this is a popular PR technique) but when businesses choose to not pay the fines, loans, or choose to continuously violate a law (because paying a fine is cheaper than complying), for whatever business reason, then it is seen "as a business decision".

For example, during the housing crises years, there were a few articles warning about the second wave of housing crisis -- that where wealthy people who see their house under water, would stop paying even if they could. They would choose to mail the keys to the bank and walk away because 7 years of bad credit is better than paying an extra $200k over the value of their house. And that was scaring some economists -- that fact that people will start acting rationally and applying "normal business principles" to their own affairs.

> There should be stiff penalties for people who decide not to pay back a student loan because "LOL TARP."

Where are the stiff penalties for banks and insurance companies pissing away money on shady deals? People were not blind they saw what happened.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#418
post #357
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting perspective, but the U.S.A. does not have debtors' prison. Only bad loans that are not repaid.

the U.S.A. does not have debtors' prison While true in theory, this may not be true in practice. There are several loopholes, one main one being that failure to pay fees and penalties assessed by the justice system itself can be a criminal offense. In some states a significant percentage (as high as 20%) of current prisoners are being held for failing to pay these LFO's (Legal Financial Obligations). Here are a coupl…

> failure to pay fees and penalties assessed by the justice system itself can be a criminal offense

Which doesn't have much of anything to do with the real estate market, right?

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar problem - I was around 7.8%. I refinanced (with Earnest, though SoFi and others provide similar service) and got it down to 4.71. Increased my payment a bit, and cut my term down by more than a decade. Now, just 117 more payments to go.

These figures shocked me. I'd assumed when Americans said "federal" loans they had a low interest rate. My British student loan, from the government, is currently at 0.9%. It's never been more than 5%. I have cash I could use to pay it off, but it earns more interest in a savings account. (And may be useful if I want an extra £12000 towards a house at some point.) http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/portal/page?_pa…

6.8% and 8.4% on my grad loans. I believe they eliminated the 8.4% loans after I graduated. There's even a 4.5% "loan origination fee."

My loan balance was $96k when I graduated 4 years ago. I have not made any real payments on it and the balance is now $125k from interest capitalization.

Note, I went to one of the lowest tuition schools in the nation for my grad program and lived at home with my parents the whole time.

Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

#420
post #417
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are arguing in favor of people even with the ability to pay back a loan, simply deciding not to because they don't want to. If that's accurate, it is absolutely disgusting. This is not about TARP. It's not about taxpayer-funded bailouts of whatever industry the royal you happens to dislike today. There are two completely separate obligations in play. 1. The legal (civil) obligation: There should be…

> 2. The moral obligation: You said you'd pay it back. Keep your word. Despite extenuating circumstances, you're just a plain old bad person otherwise. That's exactly the problem. You are applying guilt and morality to people (and not just you, this is a popular PR technique) but when businesses choose to not pay the fines, loans, or choose to continuously violate a law (because paying a fine is cheaper than complyin…

I'm going to say something crazy here: A multinational bank with a quarter-trillion dollar market cap potentially going belly up and crippling the US/world economy is a slightly different scenario than someone with $180k in law school debt not paying it back because they don't have a job or someone not paying back their $50k in student loan debt even though they could.
Post reply on HN