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Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

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Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#311

Post by darreld »

siscia wrote: post #49

I am a little scared from the distinction we are start to make between "computers" and "developers' computers" In most computer nowadays you cannot code (tables and smartphones), are computers doomed to be an expensive tool for few "nerd" ? What will be the impact on computer literacy ?

I think this split is going to get worse, especially in the Apple ecosystem. Their apparent desire is that the iPad and Pro are the computer replacement but there isn't (or will anytime soon) a way to create applications for those platforms from that (iOS) environment. Their, admittedly market-speak, statements on stage hint that they would like to see the the tablets/phones replace desktops for the larger userbase. Odd times.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#312

Post by pdabbadabba »

atgreen wrote: post #225

As I understand it, Microsoft has copied the Linux kernel system call interfaces and provided their own underlying implementation. Given that Microsoft supported Oracle's view that the structure, sequence, and organization of the Java programming interfaces were covered by copyright law, then surely they would also agree that the same holds true for the Linux kernel system call interfaces. I don't like the APIs-are-c…

Hmm. This is an interesting question. Who would the copyright holder be in this situation?

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#313

Post by progman »

JdeBP wrote: post #292
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is what I consider to be the perfect example of where this fits into the development world. From my employer, I'm given a laptop, running Windows 8.1. All of my work for the past 2 years has been in developing a .NET line-of-business application, but I was recently asked to prototype an application to automate and streamline a collection of Excel spreadsheets. (Don't laugh; I've kind of made a career out of this…

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416884 for some things that might be a problem.

That's an really important point.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#314

Post by nailer »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #310
nailer wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Draw me a linked list I don't normally use linked lists, but here's an array: "list joe (subtle gesture) mary (subtle gesture) dave end If I wanted to delete dave from the list I could grab it and slide it away or say "list delete last". > Tell me how much faster it is than typing Everyone in the room I'm in now can talk at 200 words per minute and use their hands. Very few of them could type that fast.

> "list joe (subtle gesture) mary (subtle gesture) dave end How will you go about drawing "joe" and "mary"? Is it faster than typing? Note that you can't always select stuff from dropdowns - you often have to create new symbols and values. > Everyone in the room I'm in now can naturally talk at 200 words per minute. How fast they can track back and correct a mistake made three words before? Or take the last sentence…

>> You could easily build an AST with gestures and speech

> How will you go about drawing "joe" and "mary"?

I'll just say it, it's easier. As I said at the top of the thread, gestures and speech.

> How fast they can track back and correct a mistake made three words before?

I gave an example of opening an existing structure and modifying it in the comment you're replying to.

> Or take the last sentence and make it a subnode of the one before that?

Like in a DOM? Easily: grab it and move it, just like you do it in DevTools today, except with your hands rather than a mouse.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#315

Post by ssatta »

siscia wrote: post #49

I am a little scared from the distinction we are start to make between "computers" and "developers' computers" In most computer nowadays you cannot code (tables and smartphones), are computers doomed to be an expensive tool for few "nerd" ? What will be the impact on computer literacy ?

This. It paints a unsettling picture for the future of general purpose computing.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#316

Post by ultramancool »

siscia wrote: post #49

I am a little scared from the distinction we are start to make between "computers" and "developers' computers" In most computer nowadays you cannot code (tables and smartphones), are computers doomed to be an expensive tool for few "nerd" ? What will be the impact on computer literacy ?

What do you mean? I pick up my Android phone and I've got an app that gives me a python shell, "terminal ide" which includes tons of cli developer tools like a C compiler and various editors, a full debian install I use for more secure SSH (using real openssh) and development and even some operations on various servers. There are full out Java IDEs on Android that you can install even.

So here's just a few ways you can code on Android:

QPython: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hipipal.qp...

AIDE (Java): https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui&hl...

Terminal IDE: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spartacusr...

If all else fails, just deploy debian with Linux Deploy: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.meefik.linu...

If desktops become more expensive, it'll just mean people are more motivated to make tools like this. Android phones and tablets are basically treated as cheap commodities and there's an extremely competitive market for them, if anything, the entry price has gone down.

Now, admittedly I'm not sure how this situation is on iOS, but maybe someone could link similar tools on there?

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#318

Post by spdustin »

atgreen wrote: post #294
jjuel wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think a multi billion dollar company like Microsoft wouldn't have their legal team all over this? Do you not think they would have researched this out. Discussed their implementation, and made sure everything they were doing was going to meet the GPL copyright standards?

Sure, but that doesn't answer my question of 'why'.

Because it's a faulty premise? There is no license violation, that's why a license violation isn't being discussed (your question).

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#319

Post by osweiller »

jjuel wrote: post #281
atgreen wrote: post #225

As I understand it, Microsoft has copied the Linux kernel system call interfaces and provided their own underlying implementation. Given that Microsoft supported Oracle's view that the structure, sequence, and organization of the Java programming interfaces were covered by copyright law, then surely they would also agree that the same holds true for the Linux kernel system call interfaces. I don't like the APIs-are-c…

Do you really think a multi billion dollar company like Microsoft wouldn't have their legal team all over this? Do you not think they would have researched this out. Discussed their implementation, and made sure everything they were doing was going to meet the GPL copyright standards?

This same "multi billion dollar" company had an AI bot tweeting Nazi propaganda a week ago. They spectacularly failed in their xbox one release, having to completely retool and regroup. Their Windows Phone efforts remain a complete disaster and are now doomed to failure.

The whole "they're a big company...don't you think they've thought of this!" argument (and its many "do you really think they'll lose?" variations) is always a fallacy. That doesn't make the argument about the copyright of ABIs valid, but at the same time the notion that Microsoft is big therefore they must be right is absurd.

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