Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#61

Post by chii » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 10:18 AM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #60

Meekro wrote: post #4

I used to be involved with this sort of thing, and it's actually pretty interesting stuff. There are enormous open source projects, operating largely out of public sight, that have recreated the WoW server backend in most of its glory. The lower-level content works quite well these days, though a lot of complex raid scripts are missing or broken. This one is probably the most popular: https://github.com/TrinityCore/T…

I can't believe they actually re-create the backend. Seems harder than actually making a MMORPG from scratch. Where do you even begin?

You examine the packets received by the client in response to a discrete action by the client. Recorded enough of these, and you can emulate the server!

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#62

Post by victorp13 » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 10:27 AM UTC

clevernickname wrote: post #55

Suddenly Blizzard's April Fools tweet seems cruel. Re-Live the old worlds of warcraft with our legacy servers coming this june! Starting with vanilla! https://twitter.com/Blizzard_EN/status/716004308043624448

That's a fake account.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#63

Post by morganvachon » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 10:28 AM UTC

Zancarius wrote: post #12

hoodoof wrote: post #6

Seems the classy thing to do would have been for Blizzard to ask politely instead of sending in the dogs.

I'm wondering if their objective here was to make an example out of this particular server as they have with others. Once they reach a particular critical mass, they gain Blizzard's interests and down comes the legal hammer. Although you have to wonder what sort of impact this is going to have, if any. I'd wager most of the players are unlikely to pay for a retail subscription if they aren't already simply on the mer…

> I'd wager most of the players are unlikely to pay for a retail subscription if they aren't already simply on the merits that they were actively looking for a 1.x vanilla server.

I can only speak for myself, but back when I played WoW (2005-2007) I started exploring the private server scene after the first expansion. I liked BC and continued my paid account for it, but I also missed Vanilla so I sought out ways to play it without having to pay for two subs.

Needless to say, it was a whack-a-mole affair back then, with private servers popping up and others disappearing constantly. Fun, but too much work for a game that was already taking too much of my time. I quit playing altogether when my then-girlfriend and I broke up (she was the one who got me into the game and was really the only reason I kept playing).

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#64

Post by ZenoArrow » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 10:46 AM UTC

cdbattags wrote: post #56

jmnicolas wrote: post #54

A bit off topic but anybody knows what kind of stack Blizzard is using for WOW ?

I'd love to know/dig into this as well! Any ideas?

You can get some clues here:

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/careers/posting.html?id...

Linux, C++, SQL, etc...

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#65

Post by dogma1138 » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 10:47 AM UTC

Meekro wrote: post #4

I used to be involved with this sort of thing, and it's actually pretty interesting stuff. There are enormous open source projects, operating largely out of public sight, that have recreated the WoW server backend in most of its glory. The lower-level content works quite well these days, though a lot of complex raid scripts are missing or broken. This one is probably the most popular: https://github.com/TrinityCore/T…

The majority of the private servers are either WOD or MOP, there are virtually no TBC servers and Nost was one of the few vanilla servers.

There are allot of WOTLK servers because WOTLK was the most "popular" patch of WoW and allot of work on both the emulation and the database was done for that patch.

However private servers for Cata, MoP, and WoD came out pretty much almost hand in hand with live release, they were and still are utterly garbage but most private servers are.

This is quite big it's the first time for quite a long while that Blizzard went to close an private server, and it's the first time that the server in question was not hosted in the US/CA and was not anywhere close to emulating retail content.

The content that is available on Nostralius is literally not available on any live server any more since Cataclysm which altered all the original "vanilla" content.

This might actually also be interesting to see if this can actually go to court, the server emulation (if done as a clean room) does not infringe on Blizzards actual IP, all the text, sounds, textures models are present on the client side alone the server holds only an itemized database of objects and knows how to communicate with the client.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#66

Post by kriro » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 10:49 AM UTC

pvg wrote: post #35

ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that the Lich King was the last "good" patch for WoW. What I've never understood though was there is clearly some residual demand for "down rev" versions of the game where the mechanics favored a more engaged play style, why not facilitate it? How much does it really cost to run a single realm at the Vanilla, TBC, and LK levels? So many new players where their first experience with Onxyia was soloing…

They've answered this directly numerous times. Compared to their user base, the demand is essentially zero while the development, maintenance and support costs are massive. More importantly, the resources they have are better used developing new things for their existing properties which is what statistically all their paying customers actually want. The most persistent and universal complaint about Blizzard is that…

They could still outsource running old versions to a third party (with some sort of revenue share). They could have let these guys continue to run, sanction it but demand they charge X$ and pay y% of that to Blizzard.

There are some pretty obvious downsides to that plan but it's an option.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#67

Post by throwaway125 » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 11:07 AM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #65

Meekro wrote: post #4

I used to be involved with this sort of thing, and it's actually pretty interesting stuff. There are enormous open source projects, operating largely out of public sight, that have recreated the WoW server backend in most of its glory. The lower-level content works quite well these days, though a lot of complex raid scripts are missing or broken. This one is probably the most popular: https://github.com/TrinityCore/T…

The majority of the private servers are either WOD or MOP, there are virtually no TBC servers and Nost was one of the few vanilla servers. There are allot of WOTLK servers because WOTLK was the most "popular" patch of WoW and allot of work on both the emulation and the database was done for that patch. However private servers for Cata, MoP, and WoD came out pretty much almost hand in hand with live release, they were…

>all the text, sounds, textures models are present on the client side alone

This isn't entirely true. All the quest text, monster says, NPC interactions and more are sent by the server. Sure, the models and sounds are part of the client, but the server tells your client where to place which mobs, how much health they should have, how they react to you, etc.

>The content that is available on Nostralius is literally not available on any live server any more

Yeah, hosting a game server that is no longer available because the company that used to host them stopped offering that option should probably not be against the law. Even single player games are being created as "multiplayer" nowadays, so it's bound to become an even bigger problem in the future.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#68

Post by bitwize » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 11:20 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #36

kibwen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal intuition is that splitting your userbase like this is disastrous for a game in the long-term (to say nothing of my intuition that 90% of people longing for "the old days" are just looking for a quick hit of nostalgia, with no intent to pay long-term). However, it's worth mentioning that Runescape now officially offers a "classic" version of the game alongside (and separate from) the modern version, which…

You know that is an argument about expansions in the first place? Significant player dropoffs in WoW happen in the last patches before new expansions. The userbase usually spikes up on new releases, but almost always drops lower every time, predominately because new releases gate players who were on old versions against those on the new one. Friends stop being interested, unsub, and never come back because the player…

Blizzard isn't interested in "building a living world" and never has been. From its inception the purpose of WoW has been to farm the likes of you for gold.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#69

Post by Razengan » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 11:30 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

Meekro wrote: post #4

I used to be involved with this sort of thing, and it's actually pretty interesting stuff. There are enormous open source projects, operating largely out of public sight, that have recreated the WoW server backend in most of its glory. The lower-level content works quite well these days, though a lot of complex raid scripts are missing or broken. This one is probably the most popular: https://github.com/TrinityCore/T…

One could argue that the Lich King was the last "good" patch for WoW. What I've never understood though was there is clearly some residual demand for "down rev" versions of the game where the mechanics favored a more engaged play style, why not facilitate it? How much does it really cost to run a single realm at the Vanilla, TBC, and LK levels? So many new players where their first experience with Onxyia was soloing…

I'm mostly a fan of single-player games and don't feel that massively-multiplayer games can come close to offering the same level of engagement or fulfillment, apart from the social fix.

The biggest concern I've had against investing emotions into any MMO's content, is the complete lack of a guarantee that it'll always be officially available. So many quests and such get old pretty fast and eventually forgotten. There's just no way to relive that content.

Maybe a paradigm shift is needed, away from how MMO content has been traditionally designed.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#70

Post by sbarre » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 11:47 AM UTC

throwaway125 wrote: post #67

dogma1138 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the private servers are either WOD or MOP, there are virtually no TBC servers and Nost was one of the few vanilla servers. There are allot of WOTLK servers because WOTLK was the most "popular" patch of WoW and allot of work on both the emulation and the database was done for that patch. However private servers for Cata, MoP, and WoD came out pretty much almost hand in hand with live release, they were…

>all the text, sounds, textures models are present on the client side alone This isn't entirely true. All the quest text, monster says, NPC interactions and more are sent by the server. Sure, the models and sounds are part of the client, but the server tells your client where to place which mobs, how much health they should have, how they react to you, etc. >The content that is available on Nostralius is literally no…

You're absolutely right, this is a larger issue (not just with games but with "always-on" and connected devices in general).

It's one thing for a company to shut down an older game's multiplayer-only services when the player base dwindles, but with many single player games now requiring a server connection to even function, what happens to those?

At the very least, companies should have a contingency plan for making a "sunset" patch available to allow those games to keep working - even in reduced capacity - once those servers go away.