Earlier quoted context omitted.
Education isn't the problem. Indoctrination is. Responsible, reasonably intelligent adults are encouraging children to take on this debt. If there is anyone to educate, it is the adults, not the children.
Discriminating against people with college degrees is the last bastion of acceptable racism. We would look askance at companies that put out ads that advised that people of color should not apply. But there's not nearly the same level of outrage when a college degree is required to be an administrative assistant.
More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
231–240 of 441 posts
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's more complicated than that. It's a huge, broken system. 17-year-olds can't fully grasp the burden of their debt when they take it on, and they've been told all their lives that they need to go to college to be successful. You've got a great potion for disaster here: 1) You can't be denied an education loan. 2) Education loans can't be wiped out in bankruptcy because 3) You can't repossess an education. 4…
> 2) Education loans can't be wiped out in bankruptcy because One can opt in for an unsecured personal loan, which are wiped out in bankruptcy, but those come at higher rates to compensate for the risk. The reason for low(er) rates on student loans is their legislatively mandated low rates of default.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#233A big takeaway from this article (for me) is that people are surprised that 17 year old kids don't understand what they're doing when they take out that college loan. Shock and astonishment despite there being little to no preparation for this kind of financial understanding previously in their education. That surprise and shock shocks and surprises me. Honestly it kind of reminds me of the whole Yelp minimum wage th…
If I take out a loan for a house, I provide evidence that I will be able to pay it back, and there is the collateral of the house in case I don't. Banks won't give out a loan unless there is a reasonable chance that they will make a good return on their investment. As far as I can tell, banks are prevented from making those same kinds of calculations for student loans.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#234A big takeaway from this article (for me) is that people are surprised that 17 year old kids don't understand what they're doing when they take out that college loan. Shock and astonishment despite there being little to no preparation for this kind of financial understanding previously in their education. That surprise and shock shocks and surprises me. Honestly it kind of reminds me of the whole Yelp minimum wage th…
Source: Pretty similar to my life story.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#235We have 47 million on food stamps, that's about 15% of the whole population. 47% does not pay a penny for tax, now even for those who are luck to have college educations that 40% of the borrowers are not paying back, I'm just wondering, where will the money come from to fill up the holes? Adding on the military expense etc, the country is so totally financially broken. How sad.
That's not actually true. The (mostly) correct version is that 40-some percent of the adult US population does not pay federal income tax. The number of "working age Americans" who actually pay no net federal taxes is actually less than 5%: http://zfacts.com/47-percent
When you factor in state taxes the number drops even farther. Include sales taxes, and it's probably zero. Saying that "almost half don't pay federal income tax" is still striking, but should be kept in context.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#236A big takeaway from this article (for me) is that people are surprised that 17 year old kids don't understand what they're doing when they take out that college loan. Shock and astonishment despite there being little to no preparation for this kind of financial understanding previously in their education. That surprise and shock shocks and surprises me. Honestly it kind of reminds me of the whole Yelp minimum wage th…
A big problem is that at age 17, all of the adults are saying go to college & take out these loans. Guidance councilors, teachers, parents. The most compliant high schoolers will just do what they are told without thinking about it further. I imagine this will start changing. When I was a kid, that group of adults had the benefit of cheap degrees. Today, now that group of adults is us and we did not go to school chea…
I went to college not to terribly long ago, and I remember having conversations with various people (guidance councilors, parents, teachers, peers, etc.) about career prospects and the kind of income one can expect. In fact, I switched to Computer Science precisely because of a conversation with a fellow student regarding future income potential.
I also saw many/most fellow students actively ignore or avoid the issue of future debt. Granted, they were supported in their behavior by various authority figures, but they still had a choice.
Of course, the solution isn't to complain about the stupidity of teenagers. Personally, I think the solution is fixing how the banks give out loans in the first place (i.e. allowing them to refuse to issue loans unless they think they'll get their money back).
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just curious, what are you doing now? What did you intent to major in/did you end up majoring in?
I'm a software engineer now. I majored in math. I've literally had recruiters tell me they couldn't offer me an interview because I didn't study "computers," including once at a college career fair. I wanted to tell that woman about the people who invented computers, but I held my tongue as she threw my résumé back at me.
He got demoted to some horrible computer operator position because an audit of HR revealed his degree, and the auditors found that robotics wasn't computer sciencey enough.
The union grieved it and he was eventually made whole a few years later.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with this 100%. Student loan debt should not be treated specially. It should just be normal debt that you can discharge through bankruptcy. At that point, the incentives of schools and the incentives of students would be aligned. Schools would not lend huge sums to students unless they had confidence that the education those students got was adequate to prepare them to repay. And the situation would fix itsel…
Mostly it is the federal government doing the lending, not the schools. Eligibility is fixed by law and has nothing to do with ability to repay.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#239There's a simple solution, the Feds should cutoff loans for schools that don't get their students jobs. The government are the only ones that are able to accurately calculate which schools are completely worthless. In fact they should take it one step further and advertise to the whole world what percentage of students get jobs in their studied field and the average starting salary. That would finally put some market…
Must the value of an education be purely the salary you can get afterwards? The true roots of liberal arts (which used to include everything from astronomy to mathematics to botany) lie in creating a well-rounded, educated, sophisticated person. We can't all study STEM, and we as a society shouldn't demand that.
Meanwhile, my well-rounded education comes from independent study of this and that and places like HN. I guarantee you that I can identify quality information and know more about government than most of my peers.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#240http://www.salon.com/2014/06/08/colleges_are_full_of_it_behi...
This Salon article says:
“Tuition is up 1,200 percent in 30 years. Here's why you're unemployed, crushed by debt -- and no one is helping:
“Reading back over journalistic accounts of the tuition spiral from the ’80s and ’90s, you get the impression that all concerned felt it was a wee bit uncouth to dig too deeply into a university’s pricing practices or suspect the sachems of higher learning who presided over them of anything inappropriate. These were the journalists’s beloved alma maters, after all: surely they had our best interests at heart. …
“And so, beginning in the ’80s, university administrators, their words dutifully transcribed by journalists, blamed utility bills for soaring tuition. They blamed libraries, which made a certain amount of sense until libraries went dramatically out of fashion in the Internet age—and yet still tuition prices went up.
“They blamed professors, of course, since professors are the most visible part of a university and because it’s easy to hate professors … until the outside world figured out that universities were actually using graduate students and adjuncts to teach their courses and yet still tuition prices were mounting at an insane clip.
“Administrators also blamed tuition inflation on onerous government regulations … On society … on declining student population …
“Unlike tenured faculty, university administrations actually have grown by 369 percent since the mid-1970s. … But blaming administrators proved difficult for journalists, perhaps because administrators were the very people journalists had been going to for explanations in their tuition-outrage stories. Could their sources actually be the culprits? No way. And so, less than a year after the Inquirer’s series appeared, USA Today ran its own big tuition-shock tale in which the blame was pinned on all the familiar blame-objects: Professors, student demands, technology, gummint regulation. A 1997 cover story in Time magazine—‘How Colleges Are Gouging U,’ the illustration shouted—barely mentioned administrators at all.
“What were journalists to do after ringing the alarm bells for so many years without effect? Well, there was one easy answer to this frustrating situation: To discover that there wasn’t really any problem in the first place. That the tuition spiral was entirely reasonable, even if no one could actually explain it. How so? Well, if you examine what has come to be called the 'college wage premium'—the difference between what is earned by college grads and high school grads—it becomes clear that someone who finishes four years at a university will eventually earn far more than they spent to go there, even at the crazy tuition prices of recent decades. Today this is a universal way of considering the situation, always leading us to conclude that going to college is 'worth it'; that it is a 'bargain'; that it 'pays off.' But it only seemed to enter journalists’ consciousness in the 1990s, as on the occasion when Gaston Caperton, president of the College Board, explained matters thusly to the Los Angeles Times in 1999:
“He said there has been too much focus on the cost of college and too little on the lifetime returns for four years of investment. Because a college graduate today earns about twice as much as a worker with only a high school diploma, he said, ‘a college education is worth about $1 million over a lifetime.’
“The mind reels when confronted with this kind of smugness. One wonders: Is there some identifiable aspect of a college education that yields that million dollar prize—exposure to advanced literary theory, for example? Is there a way to isolate that particular 24-carat nugget and leave the dross behind—all the plush dorm carpeting and the many layers of assistant deans? My guess, though, is that Caperton’s statement meant exactly the opposite of this—that there was no need to inquire any further about the tuition outrage. What it implied, by extension, was that since we now know the final value of a college degree (one million dollars!), the colleges can simply keep raising tuition prices and student indebtedness until they have extracted that amount from their graduates—and only after they have hit that figure will we have cause to complain.”