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Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

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Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#1
Idea: a cheap cannon-based space launch system

Who: Ryan Lackey

Objective: to put satellites into LEO, materials into higher orbit, and do so at Stage: some research, no detailed plan, looking for expertise

Technology: A "Ram Accelerator" -- essentially a 10km long, 1m bore cannon, to be built in a remote location, ideally on a mountain near the equator (Ecuador? Ethiopia? Somalia?). 500 m/s chemical gun at the breach, projectile enters a tube 10km filled with ~10 different mixtures of natural gas and oxygen. Projectile is shaped like a ramjet core (cones), so it compresses/detonates fuel, causing constant acceleration. Leaves muzzle at 10 km/s. Hits atmosphere, massive boom. Projectile contains booster rocket and circularizing rocket.

Projectile peak G load is ~5-10k G, which is a non-issue for solid state/potted electronics. Deployables can be immersed in incompressible liquid fuel.

When: "Someday". I'm not an expert in aerospace/mechanical engineering, so I'd need to find solid cofounders, and would like to validate the idea more. It's been researched extensively at UW, Boeing, and other places over the past 15y. Production scale is a $50-100mm project. Subscale is maybe $5mm.

Fellowship product: Detailed computer simulation and answers to key questions (barrel erosion, payloads/capacities, costs, market)

Final Product: Probably a LEO satcom/sensing constellation, or delivered components to orbit, rather than launch services themselves, due to unique characteristics of launch platform.

Links for reference: http://ramaccelerator.org/home/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_accelerator http://www.tbfg.org/papers/Ram%20Accelerator%20Technical%20Risks%20ISDC07.pdf

(I have full-time other things to do, but I wanted to write this up just to get feedback from people smarter than me.)

Re: Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#2
I'd suspect that the hardpart wouldn't be finding payloads that can surived the G forces but building a rocket that that can. If the rocket could be stored in in-compressible fluid,then the mechanism to eject the rocket from fluid would need to be safe against super high g forces.

Re: Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#3
post #2

I'd suspect that the hardpart wouldn't be finding payloads that can surived the G forces but building a rocket that that can. If the rocket could be stored in in-compressible fluid,then the mechanism to eject the rocket from fluid would need to be safe against super high g forces.

Mostly a solved problem. 155mm artillery rounds with full computer guidance and rocket-assist exist, and they get 50k G. (We can put nuclear bombs inside 203mm artillery, which is maybe 30k G.)

The bigger the bore, the lower the peak acceleration, and RAMAC is inherently a "long shove" vs. a specific impulse at the breach.

It absolutely rules out passengers, but doesn't really seem to be a big problem for components.

The much bigger problems are sound/ablation at the muzzle (hitting the atmosphere suddenly at 10km/s...), and barrel life/erosion (big battleship guns got...150 round lifespan. Barrel erosion is related to velocity. The breach of this will not have much difficulty, but the muzzle end probably won't do well. OTOH it's not rifled or otherwise close-fit, and could have "wipers" which are themselves ablative/disposable. Since there's a rocket/guidance package, it doesn't need to be as low-tolerance as an old battleship gun.

(System has been prototyped by Bull using 16" surplus battleship guns in Barbados)

Re: Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#6
What sort of simulation would you do that has not been done at Boeing, UW, etc.?

I am an aerospace/mechanical engineer. I think that the manufacturing aspects of this would be far more difficult to overcome than the mathematics of proving the idea as viable. In other words, it works in theory but in reality you can't make a tube with smooth enough connection points etc. Will you look at that too?

If you get this and are looking for minions let me know.

Re: Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#7

What sort of simulation would you do that has not been done at Boeing, UW, etc.? I am an aerospace/mechanical engineer. I think that the manufacturing aspects of this would be far more difficult to overcome than the mathematics of proving the idea as viable. In other words, it works in theory but in reality you can't make a tube with smooth enough connection points etc. Will you look at that too? If you get this and…

Mainly interested in openly vetting the launcher itself, but also doing reasonable system planning for the LEO satcom/sensing portion (which has evolved a lot over the past years). I have some experience in satcom myself.

(frequency access is probably the main issue there)

Re: Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#8
post #4

Won't this greatly harm(financially) SpaceX and other rocket companies, and thus prevent further effort on settling mars ?

There are some payloads which work well in a launcher like this -- bulk materials/fuels, tiny satellites for LEO. Other things will never work -- big satellites, humans.

ULA = extortionists. SpaceX should do fine. (Also, if Elon wanted to build this, I'd be perfectly happy to work with him; I just want the 100000th ticket to Mars.)

Re: Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#9
post #5

This concept has been around for a very long time. The first question I would ask is, if it's feasible and superior to rockets in some way, why hasn't it been done yet?

1) Hasn't REALLY been proven (the chemical and light gas guns are farther along; the ramac part not as much).

2) Until SpaceX, the idea of entrepreneurial space didn't exist.

3) Payload uniqueness -- this never will work for human passengers, so NASA won't fund it. The value of 1 x 100kg into LEO every hour every day for years on each launcher is not yet established.

Re: Apply HN: Ram Accelerator Supergun Space Launch

#10
I am deeply skeptical at the notion that electronics payloads can withstand 5k to 10k g's of loading. A one gram component would experience 100 newtons of loading. That's over 20 pounds of force exerted on something the mass of a paperclip.

These aren't your nice, typical static loads, either. Dynamic loading tends to not play nicely with brittle materials, so solar panels will fracture. I would be extremely concerned about the integrity of highly chemically reactive batteries when what's normally a small five pound pack weighs as much as a Bradley fighting vehicle.

My questions is, am I getting this wrong? Are you able to cite sources that say this kind of g loading isn't an issue?

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