Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was backstopping shitty loans with the full faith & credit of the gov't. Note that the person who received the shitty loan still got foreclosed on and lost their equity. The persons responsible, who made the loan, don't have to take a loss.
What sort of belief should I start from to be able to decide that people taking a loan they can't afford bear no responsibility? I imagine it's the same sort of thinking that leads to calling a property they never actually paid for theirs but I am not sure and when I am not sure, I ask.
More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
151–160 of 441 posts
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#152Sorry, but when there is no testing to determine if they borrowers can even complete the course of study they have chosen why should we expect any other result? If you wanted the best example of why college education should not be free this is it. I am all for community style colleges that could be free or heavily discounted but the idea that people can simply choose ask for their degree be paid for without first dem…
Isn't the idea of the college admissions process (ideally) to determine whether "they can even complete the course of study"? Also, couldn't we set the number of (free) admissions to certain areas of study based on the national need for those professions?
Philosophically, American universities are meant to 1) search for truth, 2) produce graduates who are educated about the most important findings and methods of the search for truth, 3) contribute to the general or local welfare in the process. Suggest to them that they are workforce training systems and you'll have a mess on your hands [0].
The private ones were doing this among the elite for hundreds of years, the public ones were meant to let the masses join the elite's party. Aside from specifically designed trade schools, neither are intended as (nor do they think of themselves as) servants of business needs for specific kinds of labor. That is why you see people required to take all kinds of "unnecessary" subjects like chemistry, physics, math, art, literature, philosophy, social sciences, etc. and even specialize in those things, regardless of whether they are relevant to career ambitions. And why this proposal is not tenable in the current system.
Part of doing this for the masses is being unselective. If public universities became more selective to decrease their dropout rates, it would be seen as a betrayal of their identities and the very purpose of public education. (For some reason people are a lot more tolerant of their children washing out then of their children getting rejected).
At the time, teenage/minimum wage was high enough in real terms were high and tuition was low enough (partly because public institutions had lower overhead, partly they had a lot more taxpayer support) that this was economically tenable. White collar employers found that college students were useful enough to put to work, even though their curriculum wasn't really designed at the employers' direction.
Even in computing. A philosophically pure Computer Science curriculum (and mine comes close) asks the question, "So we have this model of computation, and these machines that implement it. What does that mean? What can we do with it?" It does not ask the question "How do we best prepare workers for the IT departments of the big local employers?"
And this is why you get students learning things like theory of computation, fundamental algorithms, functional programming, operating systems, compilers, programming language theory and design, networking in the general rather than Cisco sense, etc. - things that re meant to be fundamental and timeless - instead of How To Contribute To Local BigCos Java/Win32 Codebases Right Now.
Maybe we've outlived the usefulness of this notion. It's less present in Europe, but in Germany at least the college liberal arts curriculum is simply shifted into high school and reserved for the academically inclined (Gymansium). It's not that they don't do it, they just do it differently.
[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/02/...
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#153A big takeaway from this article (for me) is that people are surprised that 17 year old kids don't understand what they're doing when they take out that college loan. Shock and astonishment despite there being little to no preparation for this kind of financial understanding previously in their education. That surprise and shock shocks and surprises me. Honestly it kind of reminds me of the whole Yelp minimum wage th…
Who is supposed to work those jobs then? Even if Yelp relocated their non engineering staff, paying them minimum wage in some other city won't help them.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#154I wonder if there is investment vehicle I can short to make some profit if these loans do actually go bad?
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#155> The Education Department has assembled a “behavioral sciences unit” to study the psychology of borrowers and why they don’t repay. Ha! There is a bit of a hypocrisy there -- if big banks / companies piss away money and choose to strategically default then (and some even get bail-outs), it is just business. If people do it for whatever reason, well clearly the are immoral, deficient somehow, their psychology needs t…
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#156> The Education Department has assembled a “behavioral sciences unit” to study the psychology of borrowers and why they don’t repay. Ha! There is a bit of a hypocrisy there -- if big banks / companies piss away money and choose to strategically default then (and some even get bail-outs), it is just business. If people do it for whatever reason, well clearly the are immoral, deficient somehow, their psychology needs t…
The TARP bailout was not money just handed out to banks. It was loans to banking and other industries which was repaid in full overall. And in fact it was the auto industry which failed to repay the loan, not the banking industry. I'm not a fan of the financial sector but let's keep the facts straight here
I'm not a fan of the financial sector but let's keep the facts straight here
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#157A big takeaway from this article (for me) is that people are surprised that 17 year old kids don't understand what they're doing when they take out that college loan. Shock and astonishment despite there being little to no preparation for this kind of financial understanding previously in their education. That surprise and shock shocks and surprises me. Honestly it kind of reminds me of the whole Yelp minimum wage th…
A big problem is that at age 17, all of the adults are saying go to college & take out these loans. Guidance councilors, teachers, parents. The most compliant high schoolers will just do what they are told without thinking about it further. I imagine this will start changing. When I was a kid, that group of adults had the benefit of cheap degrees. Today, now that group of adults is us and we did not go to school chea…
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ha! There is a bit of a hypocrisy there -- if big banks / companies piss away money and choose to strategically default then (and some even get bail-outs), it is just business. If people do it for whatever reason, well clearly the are immoral, deficient somehow, their psychology needs to be studied by a special committee. A lot of misunderstanding here. Education department doesn't have any enforcement arm as far a…
> Education department doesn't have any enforcement arm as far as I'm aware. The IRS will garnish wages for student loans.
On the other hand, a study conducted by the Department of Education, run by Education Secretary John King Jr, makes a lot of sense. and is hardly malicious at all. Department of Education wanting to know the effectiveness of their FAFSA loan program (and why or why not people are able to pay those loans back) is definitely a good thing.
Besides, all the loans are being handled by Sallie Mae (a private company with some Government support). So its Sallie Mae who is officially on the hook with regards to collections and such. The Department of Education is rather removed from the whole finances thing, as far as I'm aware.
So basically, you can assume a malicious force if the IRS or maybe even Sallie Mae began to conduct this sort of investigation. But the Department of Education? Collections isn't their thing. They're likely interested in the state of education, college readiness and the like.
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A big problem is that at age 17, all of the adults are saying go to college & take out these loans. Guidance councilors, teachers, parents. The most compliant high schoolers will just do what they are told without thinking about it further. > I imagine this will start changing. When I was a kid, that group of adults had the benefit of cheap degrees. Today, now that group of adults is us and we did not go to school…
Just curious, what are you doing now? What did you intent to major in/did you end up majoring in?
Re: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments
#160A big takeaway from this article (for me) is that people are surprised that 17 year old kids don't understand what they're doing when they take out that college loan. Shock and astonishment despite there being little to no preparation for this kind of financial understanding previously in their education. That surprise and shock shocks and surprises me. Honestly it kind of reminds me of the whole Yelp minimum wage th…
This is insulting. What choice do you think these kids have? A university degree is the only gateway to social mobility available to most young people in the United States, and at current prices, most of them can't actually afford it. What do you expect the kids to do? "Gee, I guess I'll just have to spend the rest of my life in the service industry, making other people rich." Give me a break. Of course they're going…