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How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#91

Post by tremon »

lettergram wrote: post #70
enlightenedfool wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will get worse when electorate instead of choosing the right candidates, chooses the more electable ones. The constitution cannot provide safeguard against ill-informed electorate. Not just the US, applies to any democracy. Most democracies have similar awesome constitution texts.

That's actually why historically only land owners could vote. They had the most to lose and we're the most educated. Regardless of "right or wrong" that did provide a safeguard against the likes of people like Trump, probably Hillery and Bernie as well.

Would it have safeguarded against Nixon, Reagan, Bush or McCarthy though?

(yes, I know, the latter was never president -- but still elected)

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#92

Post by nxzero »

boosting7669 wrote: post #83
nxzero wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, juries are not required to follow the law: SOURCE: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification RELATED TEXT: "A jury can similarly unjustly and illegally convict a defendant on the ground of disagreement with an existing law, even if no law is broken (although in jurisdictions with double jeopardy rules, a conviction can be overturned on appeal, but an acquittal cannot)."

I don't understand how this is relevant to my comment. Please explain

Your comment appears to me to assume that if a jury knew someone was not guilt by law, that they would vote not guilt. My point is that a jury in the US can intentionally convict someone as guilty that they're aware is "legally" not guilty.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#93

Post by rconti »

SeanDav wrote: post #55

If, during the entire history of the USA, some FBI agents had never been proven to be corrupt, if judges had never been proven to be corrupt, if evidence had never been proved to be planted by authorities, then maybe, just maybe this would be justified. In the real world, however, this is very, very scary and I consider myself lucky I am not subject to this travesty. Since there does not appear to be any proof that h…

Yeah, the disturbing/relevant line is:

"During his initial appearance in a federal courthouse in Santa Ana, Calif., the prosecutors indicated a willingness to reduce or drop the child pornography charges if he would tell them about the C-17, said Sara Naheedy, Gartenlaub’s attorney at the time."

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#94

Post by cloudjacker »

tptacek wrote: post #46
darawk wrote: post #44

To be honest, nothing about this seems particularly bad. It seems like circumstantially there was some evidence that he may have been a spy, the government executed a FISA warrant on the basis of that belief, and then found evidence of child porn. I'm not generally a fan of secret warrants or broad search and seizure powers, but this really doesn't strike me as a particularly bad case. This seems, by and large, like…

I'm not super alarmed by this case, but the precedent is disquieting. Here it seems like FISA was used to get a secret warrant to build a counterespionage case; the warrant was targeted and specific. There's some unpleasant strong-arm tactics at play, but nothing out of the ordinary (in particular: you can definitely be the subject of a warrant for which the search more or less exonerates you, but be implicated in a…

The only precedent is you reading this news article.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#95

Post by tremon »

webjprgm wrote: post #59
cnfjdnncd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iceland has a very good record with human rights and properly functioning democratic representation. Some of the Nordic states are trailing runners up.

Isn't Iceland going through a national financial crisis and also just booted their president for lying to them? That doesn't sound much better.

Yes, they just booted their prime minister. Sounds like a politically healthy country to me.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#96

Post by tremon »

function_seven wrote: post #39
ekianjo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights? One thing to keep in mind if you move out of the US is that you will be subject to double-taxation as a US citizen. So technically if you want to reject the system you need to leave the country and lose the passport.

You're not double-taxed as a US citizen abroad. You pay the higher of the two taxes. And you don't pay US taxes on the first 100k of income.

How does that work? If your local taxes are more than what the US would take, they take nothing? And if the US taxes are higher, the US only receives the surplus amount?

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#97

Post by patcheudor »

boosting7669 wrote: post #75
SeanDav wrote: post #55

If, during the entire history of the USA, some FBI agents had never been proven to be corrupt, if judges had never been proven to be corrupt, if evidence had never been proved to be planted by authorities, then maybe, just maybe this would be justified. In the real world, however, this is very, very scary and I consider myself lucky I am not subject to this travesty. Since there does not appear to be any proof that h…

And yet a jury convicted him. This kind of thing is far beyond the comprehension of the common juror. Knowing what I know about computer security and how EASY it is to plant digital evidence without leaving a trace, even from thousands of miles away, I'd have to see video evidence of the defendant downloading the material as it happens before rendering such a verdict, especially if it's going to mean decades in priso…

"Knowing what I know about computer security and how EASY it is to plant digital evidence without leaving a trace."

This right here is the conversation which needs to happen around this particular topic. In the security community the topic of forensic discovery of child porn tends to get a hand-wave because child porn. It's there so someone must be guilty. The fact is, it is trivial to plant such evidence on anyone's computer and honestly, if a computer is connected to the Internet, define ownership. Is your computer connected to the Internet? Then it's not your computer. Ever used public WiFi? It's absolutely trivial for someone to inject image requests which never get rendered, but which remain in the cache. This can be done en-mass without anyone ever noticing until someone's computer gets searched.

Based on digital evidence alone no one should ever be arrested, let alone convicted on these charges, but the fact is, to catch someone who is guilty is very difficult. Difficult to the degree that it should require video and/or photographic evidence of the perp at the computer looking at the images. Therefore it seems law enforcement and the justice system has decided that the easy way out is to just go with what's on the hard-drive. If a few innocent people get caught, no big deal, it's for the greater good.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#98

Post by mindslight »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #90
mindslight wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about 1861, when the mutual agreement of the Constitution was reinterpreted as an inescapable suicide pact? I don't think there's necessarily a specific turning point - it seems a long line of gradual erosion.

It's all about how you read your history. You could just as easily point to the amendments expanding voting rights to men without property, then freed slaves, then women, and so on, as an aberration of the founders' original design. I prefer to look at it through the lens of propaganda because it marked the beginning of an era when big changes in culture and society can be reliably made through subtle manipulation in…

What's your constructive result (as opposed to reactive/condemning) of that characterization?

To me, propaganda is just a result of mass media, which itself is a result of the longer trend of advancing of communication technology. It's impossible to oppress someone who is not in your "light cone", or to control actions which are below your limit of resolving.

In the past things weren't as developed, so it was easier to circumvent a model that was less reflective of reality. But going forward, I feel the quest for individual freedom entirely comes down to information architectures.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#99

Post by noonespecial »

So kiddie porn is just the new "drugs" is the new "he's a secret communist" is the new "he's a secret loyalist" is the new "she's a witch in league with satan". Par for the course.

I think American exceptionalism gets in our way here. Instead of asking "how could this happen in the land of the free?", the real question is "You gave some people limitless power and no oversight!? What the hell did you expect? This is what always happens when you do that!"

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#100

Post by ptaipale »

tremon wrote: post #95
webjprgm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Iceland going through a national financial crisis and also just booted their president for lying to them? That doesn't sound much better.

Yes, they just booted their prime minister. Sounds like a politically healthy country to me.

They also had their currency value cut to half in 2008, and that had a very real impact on the purchasing power of people. The currency has recovered a bit but the change is still there and its's big.

There are also currency controls for taking money out, etc. Iceland is still in severe shock.

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