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Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

independent.co.uk

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Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#21

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

0x07c0 wrote: post #16
jernfrost wrote: post #5

I am more interested in whether there is any way of find a connection between Columbus and the Vikings. I've read stories before about how Columbus went to Norway and got info there about the Viking exploration. But what I've read just seemed like wild speculation then. Something more solid would have been nice. The reason why that is relevant is that the Viking discovery of America is of no significance if it didn't…

Thor Heyerdahl had this theory , Columbus did not go to Norway but his family is of the Norwegian Nobel Bonde family. They lost a power struggle, and had to go abroad, to Genova . This as I recall is based on a book written by a family member of Columbus, think the brother(if he had one). Stating that the name of the family is not from Italy, but it a Latinifaction of the original language from where the family is fr…

Of course a famous Norwegian thinks Columbus is Scandinavian! I'm reminded of the phrase Samuel Eliot Morrison used in his books on the European Discovery of America-"Scandinavery". Its about as realistic as the "runes" discovered in the midwest in the late 19th century. There's a bit of a cottage industry in the US of various ethnic groups either claiming Columbus was really one of their own, or claiming that some other ethnic group (theirs, coincidentally!) actually discovered America.

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#22

Post by masklinn »

douche wrote: post #18
jernfrost wrote: post #5

I am more interested in whether there is any way of find a connection between Columbus and the Vikings. I've read stories before about how Columbus went to Norway and got info there about the Viking exploration. But what I've read just seemed like wild speculation then. Something more solid would have been nice. The reason why that is relevant is that the Viking discovery of America is of no significance if it didn't…

I think the more probable connection for Columbus would be the Basque cod fishermen that were fishing off the Grand Banks of Newfoundland years before he sailed the ocean blue.

They were notoriously highly secretive about their far-flung fishing grounds as it gave them pretty significant monetary advantages.

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#23

Post by parennoob »

jernfrost wrote: post #5

I am more interested in whether there is any way of find a connection between Columbus and the Vikings. I've read stories before about how Columbus went to Norway and got info there about the Viking exploration. But what I've read just seemed like wild speculation then. Something more solid would have been nice. The reason why that is relevant is that the Viking discovery of America is of no significance if it didn't…

> The reason why that is relevant is that the Viking discovery of America is of no significance if it didn't help European discovery in any way.

In my opinion, this is an incredibly narrow-minded view.

Native Americans and pretty much the rest of humans were two branches of the human race that had almost been cut off from each other, and re-united after more than 10000 years. Showing the time and extent of this first contact is more or at least as significant as whether or not it helped "European discovery". For example, it could have been Polynesians being in extensive contact with South America – which would have zilch to do with Europe, but would still be very significant.

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#24

Post by cmrdporcupine »

distances wrote: post #17
skc wrote: post #2

Good, means we can get a season five of "Vikings"

The Last Kingdom is frankly better. Though it's about the events in the British Isles, so colonisation of the New World won't likely show up there..

I was loving it until episode 6, when IMHO it jumped the shark.

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#26

Post by douche »

hutzlibu wrote: post #25

Does anyone know if there have been research about a possible genetic mixture with vikings and american native tribes?

Seems doubtful, simply because of the really, really small numbers of Norse that ever would have been in North America. Between the stories in the Sagas and the size of L'Anse aux Meadows, I would bet that you could put the ceiling on the number of Scandinavians who set foot in Vinland before 1500 at about a thousand, being generous.

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#27

Post by elcapitan »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #21
0x07c0 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thor Heyerdahl had this theory , Columbus did not go to Norway but his family is of the Norwegian Nobel Bonde family. They lost a power struggle, and had to go abroad, to Genova . This as I recall is based on a book written by a family member of Columbus, think the brother(if he had one). Stating that the name of the family is not from Italy, but it a Latinifaction of the original language from where the family is fr…

Of course a famous Norwegian thinks Columbus is Scandinavian! I'm reminded of the phrase Samuel Eliot Morrison used in his books on the European Discovery of America-"Scandinavery". Its about as realistic as the "runes" discovered in the midwest in the late 19th century. There's a bit of a cottage industry in the US of various ethnic groups either claiming Columbus was really one of their own, or claiming that some o…

Everybody knows that Columbus was German!

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#28

Post by INTPenis »

jernfrost wrote: post #5

I am more interested in whether there is any way of find a connection between Columbus and the Vikings. I've read stories before about how Columbus went to Norway and got info there about the Viking exploration. But what I've read just seemed like wild speculation then. Something more solid would have been nice. The reason why that is relevant is that the Viking discovery of America is of no significance if it didn't…

Actually an African connection is much more likely, and even documented.

I've only read Wikipedia on this matter and I didn't really check the sources carefully but it is said that on his 3rd journey Columbus received orders from the spanish court to travel south because they believed a continent to be there.

The continent was south america and it was on this journey that it was "discovered". How the spanish court knew this was apparently because of stories from Mali that claimed to not only have travelled across the atlantic by canoe, but also to have traded and waged war with people on the other side of the atlantic.

Just so I'm clear, an african kingdom traded and waged war with people in south america before Columbus sailed there. This is at least the claim.

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#29

Post by rpledge »

douche wrote: post #26
hutzlibu wrote: post #25

Does anyone know if there have been research about a possible genetic mixture with vikings and american native tribes?

Seems doubtful, simply because of the really, really small numbers of Norse that ever would have been in North America. Between the stories in the Sagas and the size of L'Anse aux Meadows, I would bet that you could put the ceiling on the number of Scandinavians who set foot in Vinland before 1500 at about a thousand, being generous.

It would be diffuclt to test as the Beothuk (the native people who lived on Newfoundland) sadly have been extinct for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beothuk

Re: Discovery of 1,000-year-old Viking site in Canada could rewrite history

#30

Post by wavefunction »

parennoob wrote: post #23
jernfrost wrote: post #5

I am more interested in whether there is any way of find a connection between Columbus and the Vikings. I've read stories before about how Columbus went to Norway and got info there about the Viking exploration. But what I've read just seemed like wild speculation then. Something more solid would have been nice. The reason why that is relevant is that the Viking discovery of America is of no significance if it didn't…

> The reason why that is relevant is that the Viking discovery of America is of no significance if it didn't help European discovery in any way. In my opinion, this is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Native Americans and pretty much the rest of humans were two branches of the human race that had almost been cut off from each other, and re-united after more than 10000 years. Showing the time and extent of this first…

There's evidence as others have pointed out of African expeditions and I've read about evidence of Chinese and Polynesian contact with South America so I'm not sure it was quite as drastic a gulf as you propose.
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