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Grunt 1.0.0 released

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Re: Grunt 1.0.0 released

#101
post #43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand what I meant. Nobody has written or suggested that webpack outputs script tags or AMD. I simply stated that webpack markets itself as using script tags and AMD as input, which is true: from the meta description on webpack.github.io: "Webpack is a module bundler. It packs CommonJs/AMD modules i. e. for the browser" If you use AMD as input you have to get updates to your libraries separately, and your…

Where does it say it uses script tags for input? The quote you mention says CommonJS/AMD. CommonJS is the de-facto standard these days. Typically, people write in ES6 imports, which then gets transpiled to CommonJS anyway. It accepts AMD as an option, but honestly, I've been using webpack for about a month and I haven't come across a single library that recommends using AMD. It's just there as an option for those who…

I think by script tags he means JS modules that only "export" things using globals.

Re: Grunt 1.0.0 released

#102
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I don't get. Do authors of these build tools actually sit down for a couple of months looking at things like Makefiles that have been around forever, perhaps even Maven, etc. Take all these things together and go "This is what sucks in all of them, and here's how we can do it better" and still cater for all the use cases that these tools are brilliant at. It's like there's no thought put into these tools…

Haha, yes. When I saw that LiveScript was using Makefiles[0] to build, I was baffled. To me they were ancient and complicated C/C++ stuff. But when I looked into them, everything seemed rather straight forward, even a bit nicer than Gulp, because of the syntax. [0] https://github.com/gkz/LiveScript/blob/master/Makefile

Makefiles have some glaring issues that can't be easily fixed.

The big one is that they break if there are spaces in file or directory names.

Sure, you can argue spaces are bad practice. But they are common on OS X and windows. It's a little silly to use a build system that doesn't support them.

Re: Grunt 1.0.0 released

#103
post #65

People keep saying "every grunt package makes its own way of doing things." I have not found that to be the case at all. Grunt has a lot of ways to specify groups of files, and many packages only show example usage for one of them, but they are actually largely interchangeable. I'm a little incensed at the speed of it. It is very slow, for no apparent reason. But now I'm also wondering if it's not grunt's fault and a…

The "file name too long" was an issue in npm v2, where each module installed its dependencies inside itself, recursively, leading to enormous node_modules/foo/node_modules/bar/node_modules/baz/node_modules/quux/node_modules/... chains. npm v3 was an attempt to fix this so it now tries to install all modules and their dependencies in the top level directory, unless there's a version conflict, in which case it falls ba…

It cut it some, but not enough. Only about a 33% savings, i.e. went from 15 to 10 seconds, meaning it's still too long.

Uuuuugh, extremely vexing.

Re: Grunt 1.0.0 released

#104
post #102
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, yes. When I saw that LiveScript was using Makefiles[0] to build, I was baffled. To me they were ancient and complicated C/C++ stuff. But when I looked into them, everything seemed rather straight forward, even a bit nicer than Gulp, because of the syntax. [0] https://github.com/gkz/LiveScript/blob/master/Makefile

Makefiles have some glaring issues that can't be easily fixed. The big one is that they break if there are spaces in file or directory names. Sure, you can argue spaces are bad practice. But they are common on OS X and windows. It's a little silly to use a build system that doesn't support them.

Ah, didn't know that.

Re: Grunt 1.0.0 released

#105
post #102
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, yes. When I saw that LiveScript was using Makefiles[0] to build, I was baffled. To me they were ancient and complicated C/C++ stuff. But when I looked into them, everything seemed rather straight forward, even a bit nicer than Gulp, because of the syntax. [0] https://github.com/gkz/LiveScript/blob/master/Makefile

Makefiles have some glaring issues that can't be easily fixed. The big one is that they break if there are spaces in file or directory names. Sure, you can argue spaces are bad practice. But they are common on OS X and windows. It's a little silly to use a build system that doesn't support them.

That isn't entirely true. It depends entirely on how you quote your filenames. But yes, historically, there's a lot of broken Makefiles that way.

Re: Grunt 1.0.0 released

#106
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grunt was nasty as hell, and clearly didn't learn any of the lessons from, say, proper Makefiles from the UNIX world over the past 30 years. Gulp is a looooot better, especially when I have things like Foundation 6's zurb-template, which is basically configured out of the box how I setup my Foundation 5 era projects. I don't care how big a Gulp file is if I'm not the one having to do major maintenance on it.

I don't get it, what part of Makefiles are missing in Grunt? I've set up a project pretty simply through Grunt without too many headaches (after grocking how to properly write base tasks)

The simplicity, plus Grunt has an entire ecosystem of already made tasks that none of them really work the same, so you have to learn the quirks of other people's code.

Its basically the NPM problem all over again, but as a build system, while also using NPM which doesn't make not not the NPM problem.

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