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Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

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Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#11
post #4

> However, I am still worried that in a few months they will realize that I am incompetent or unproductive and I will be fired. Whoa, where is this coming from?! Jeez, is this your first job? > Do you have any things you might add? The note about sleep is good, you probably don't need the others. Let any of the above be driven only by your passions and interests. At work, communicate well and as clearly as possible.…

Ach, I left off the fact that I've been fired from 2/3 dev jobs for underperformance.

It is that last bit, "get your work done" that I'm worried about. I'm concerned that I'm going to not move fast enough. Since this has happened before, I figure that I need to do something significantly different than before.

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#12
post #3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome Be yourself. Ask your manager for feedback every other week. Have fun.

> be yourself

Does the advice "be yourself" mean "do what you would tend by habit to do"? If so, I think that would probably have the same result it's had in 2/3 dev jobs I've held: me getting fired.

I originally thought I had impostor syndrome too, since it was constantly talked about at school. I should have mentioned that I've been fired from 2 dev jobs I've held before this, so apologies for that.

Explicitly asking for feedback is a good idea, though I worry that 2 weeks is too infrequent. Would every 1 week be annoying?

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#13
post #2

Getting copious sleep is a good idea! Generally, if your goal is to perform well at work, I recommend relaxing in your free time (instead of pushing yourself to train so hard) so that you'll be full of energy for the workday. Of course, doing extracurricular professional development is fine and a lot of people love their side projects, but I'm worried that your attitude will lead you to burnout. Your best bet is actu…

I would love to "just relax" and that's what I used to do. But after having been fired for underperformance twice, I want to figure out what it is about the way I work that leads to problems and to change that.

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#14

* Listen more than you talk. * Show up with a good attitude, every day. * Under-promise, over-deliver. * Be consistent 100% of the time, not great 10% of the time and crappy the other 90%.

> under-promise, over-deliver

What do I do when I'm asked how long a feature will take and the honest answer is "I don't know"? I have tried to teach myself how to create software timeline estimates; I've still not figured it out, and it seems like nobody knows how to do it.

When I tell someone that I don't know and they still press me for an answer, I usually cave and give a random guess, followed by "but I would not rely on that." I feel so dishonest lying to people's faces like that but in the moment it feels like it is the only way to get the situation to end. Should I just get a friend and practice staing steadfast in refusing to answer? Is there something I can say that isn't going to sound like I am incompetent?

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#15

* Listen more than you talk. * Show up with a good attitude, every day. * Under-promise, over-deliver. * Be consistent 100% of the time, not great 10% of the time and crappy the other 90%.

> under-promise, over-deliver What do I do when I'm asked how long a feature will take and the honest answer is "I don't know"? I have tried to teach myself how to create software timeline estimates; I've still not figured it out, and it seems like nobody knows how to do it. When I tell someone that I don't know and they still press me for an answer, I usually cave and give a random guess, followed by "but I would no…

Learn to qualify your "I don't know"s with details of how you're going to find out. "I don't know, but here's a guess" is far less useful than "I don't know, but I can do an hour or two of research and then get back to you with a decent estimate".

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#16

* Listen more than you talk. * Show up with a good attitude, every day. * Under-promise, over-deliver. * Be consistent 100% of the time, not great 10% of the time and crappy the other 90%.

> under-promise, over-deliver What do I do when I'm asked how long a feature will take and the honest answer is "I don't know"? I have tried to teach myself how to create software timeline estimates; I've still not figured it out, and it seems like nobody knows how to do it. When I tell someone that I don't know and they still press me for an answer, I usually cave and give a random guess, followed by "but I would no…

Use historical data (yours and/or the company's.) Find an IRC room or something where you can ask other developers how long something could take. Try writing down every small feature, or class required, or other chunk of project and multiply the length of that list by some number like 10 hours.

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#17

I don't understand why you're so anxious about it. Is this your first job out of school? Showing up, being openminded, and putting forth full effort will help you shine. Relax a little :)

Nope, this is my fourth job. I've been fired from 2/3 jobs for underperformance.

This is the real issue. You need to tell us more about why you were fired if you want to get useful feedback.

My advice at this stage is just work harder than everyone else. Be the first to arrive and the last to leave and the company will find it very hard to fire you because of the signal it sends.

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> under-promise, over-deliver What do I do when I'm asked how long a feature will take and the honest answer is "I don't know"? I have tried to teach myself how to create software timeline estimates; I've still not figured it out, and it seems like nobody knows how to do it. When I tell someone that I don't know and they still press me for an answer, I usually cave and give a random guess, followed by "but I would no…

Learn to qualify your "I don't know"s with details of how you're going to find out. "I don't know, but here's a guess" is far less useful than "I don't know, but I can do an hour or two of research and then get back to you with a decent estimate".

The problem here is that I don't know how to generate an estimate except by actually doing the work.

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#19
post #3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome Be yourself. Ask your manager for feedback every other week. Have fun.

> be yourself Does the advice "be yourself" mean "do what you would tend by habit to do"? If so, I think that would probably have the same result it's had in 2/3 dev jobs I've held: me getting fired. I originally thought I had impostor syndrome too, since it was constantly talked about at school. I should have mentioned that I've been fired from 2 dev jobs I've held before this, so apologies for that. Explicitly aski…

Why were you fired?

Re: Starting a new job – What can I do to avoid getting fired?

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, this is my fourth job. I've been fired from 2/3 jobs for underperformance.

This is the real issue. You need to tell us more about why you were fired if you want to get useful feedback. My advice at this stage is just work harder than everyone else. Be the first to arrive and the last to leave and the company will find it very hard to fire you because of the signal it sends.

I do probably need to spend more time figuring out why I was fired. My current understanding is this:

* When I'm confused about what a task really entails or what tools I can use and I try to get people to resolve that ambiguity, I sometimes cannot persuade them to do so.

* Sometimes I don't recognize that I lack the knowledge/documentation to do something and instead approach it with an "I'm smart and resourceful; I'll figure it out" attitude. By the time I convince myself that I need to ask for help, I'm embarrassed about not having made progress.

* I've gotten feedback that I "try to understand the universe" when debugging an unfamiliar system. That I should be more focused in my search. The difficulty here is that, when I'm working with an unfamiliar system, I don't know the lay of the land and so I end up spending a long time trying to get a sketch of a mental model of it because, well...how else could I solve problems?

* As my username suggests, I get distracted easily and sometimes find myself losing 5+ hours to distraction. I've been able to fight this to some degree using SelfControl.app and by making sure I get good sleep.

* I don't know how to come up with task estimates that have any relationship with reality. I've said "I don't know how to give software timeline estimates", but often get pushed to give a number anyway. I really really hate lying to a coworker/supervisor's face and wish I could find a way avoid it. I've tried to learn how to do estimation and bought a book on it, but all of the advice seems to focus on projects on a months-long scale rather than things that should take a couple hours.

> the company will find it very hard to fire you because of the signal it sends.

I'm skeptical of this for a few reasons: I've done this at the previous jobs but to not much avail. Also, it isn't sustainable. Also, that sort of signal doesn't cut costs or add revenue, so why would it convince them to keep me on. It might make it more emotionally difficult to fire me, but firing someone is already emotionally difficult.

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