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Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

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Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#31

Post by gnaritas »

miscellaneous wrote: post #30
gnaritas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mixers A PC name for money launderers. If you need a money launderer, you should rethink what you're doing.

Noun, 1. money laundering: Concealing the source of illegally gotten money. Do you have any evidence that suggests that all users of mixers obtained their Bitcoin illegally? This HN post is a criticism of the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. Mixers can improve the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. I don't see how your comment adds to this discussion, unless you think financial privacy is a crime - in which case your s…

> Do you have any evidence that suggests that all users of mixers obtained their Bitcoin illegally?

And why would I require that? I haven't accused all bitcoin users of anything.

> This HN post is a criticism of the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. Mixers can improve the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. I don't see how your comment adds to this discussion, unless you think financial privacy is a crime - in which case your statement applies equally to cash transactions.

The law thinks financial privacy is a crime, thus KYC laws, and as such it's on topic for any discussion of bitcoin privacy since said discussion should include the issue that you fix social problems with engineering. You can't break the law "because the protocol just works that way".

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#32

Post by gnaritas »

AgentME wrote: post #29
gnaritas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mixers A PC name for money launderers. If you need a money launderer, you should rethink what you're doing.

They're not necessarily about hiding from the law. They can be used to get any privacy from the general public. All bitcoin transactions are publicly broadcast to everyone. Do you use a shower curtain specifically for hiding from the government?

> They're not necessarily about hiding from the law.

Sure, like torrents aren't necessarily about ip theft.

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#33

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

gnaritas wrote: post #27
Sinergy wrote: post #15

I hope everybody here knows about BitcoinFog, Shared Send, and other mixers. And uses them for random transactions now and then to give the rest of us plausible deniability.

> Mixers A PC name for money launderers. If you need a money launderer, you should rethink what you're doing.

Are you saying you're 100% comfortable sharing the details of all financial transactions you're a part of with "the world"?

Sure, your bank would probably want to inquire about the source of the cash if you were to bring a briefcase of cash to the branch for a deposit. But that would be private information sharing "channel" between you and your bank - both the source of your funds and the fact that you have them in your account is reasonably private compared to a wide open ledger sitting out there with all of the txs from day one.

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#34

Post by Karunamon »

gnaritas wrote: post #31
miscellaneous wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noun, 1. money laundering: Concealing the source of illegally gotten money. Do you have any evidence that suggests that all users of mixers obtained their Bitcoin illegally? This HN post is a criticism of the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. Mixers can improve the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. I don't see how your comment adds to this discussion, unless you think financial privacy is a crime - in which case your s…

> Do you have any evidence that suggests that all users of mixers obtained their Bitcoin illegally? And why would I require that? I haven't accused all bitcoin users of anything. > This HN post is a criticism of the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. Mixers can improve the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. I don't see how your comment adds to this discussion, unless you think financial privacy is a crime - in which case…

You accused them of money laundering, which is a crime by itself most first world nations. Except that phrase doesn't apply unless another crime has been committed, because it only applies to funds gotten illegally.

Make more sense?

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#35

Post by repomies69 »

aminorex wrote: post #14
bduerst wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't 10% of mined zcash coins being skimmed by the founder?

Yes. z.cash centralizes control under a corporation, which makes it vulnerable to legal process and political risk, and it is what is known in the crypto world as a "pre-mine scam".

How is it a scam if the founders are honest about it? Everyone knows the name of the game.

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#36

Post by MichaelGG »

aminorex wrote: post #14
bduerst wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't 10% of mined zcash coins being skimmed by the founder?

Yes. z.cash centralizes control under a corporation, which makes it vulnerable to legal process and political risk, and it is what is known in the crypto world as a "pre-mine scam".

What is the legal risk? With a zkp properly involved shouldn't de-anonymization be impossible? Or do you mean other risks?

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#37

Post by eru »

ultramancool wrote: post #28
eru wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerocoin inside bitcoin?

Zcash is what zerocoin has become (same developers). The hopes of getting something like this into bitcoin... may still be possible, but would require agreement amongst miners and developers. Something that seems unlikely right now. The separate altcoin is the smartest way to experiment with it for now at least.

Thanks!

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#38

Post by Kiro »

miscellaneous wrote: post #30
gnaritas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mixers A PC name for money launderers. If you need a money launderer, you should rethink what you're doing.

Noun, 1. money laundering: Concealing the source of illegally gotten money. Do you have any evidence that suggests that all users of mixers obtained their Bitcoin illegally? This HN post is a criticism of the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. Mixers can improve the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. I don't see how your comment adds to this discussion, unless you think financial privacy is a crime - in which case your s…

Doesn't financial privacy mean tax evasion by default?

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#39

Post by joosters »

LAMike wrote: post #11

When SegWit is released in a few months, confidential transactions will be right around the corner

Everything is around the corner in bitcoinland... Lightning networks, confidential transactions, improved performance, etc etc... It's a very crowded corner and it only seems to get more crowded!

Re: Bitcoin Users Reveal More Private Information Than They Realize

#40

Post by gnaritas »

Karunamon wrote: post #34
gnaritas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any evidence that suggests that all users of mixers obtained their Bitcoin illegally? And why would I require that? I haven't accused all bitcoin users of anything. > This HN post is a criticism of the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. Mixers can improve the privacy of Bitcoin transactions. I don't see how your comment adds to this discussion, unless you think financial privacy is a crime - in which case…

You accused them of money laundering, which is a crime by itself most first world nations. Except that phrase doesn't apply unless another crime has been committed, because it only applies to funds gotten illegally. Make more sense?

Anonymous financial transactions are themselves crimes, they violate KYC laws.
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