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A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

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Re: A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

#3
It's not just smarter it's the only possible solution out of the two.

Many people wrongly discuss the premise of basic income in the context of whether it's a better solution for for the job market. I.e. as a better way to solve unemployment fluctuations which in this view are still going up.

But the whole point about Basic Income is what we do about there being fewer and fewer jobs that pay a proper salary.

Re: A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

#4
But what about existing entitlement sending, which keeps growing? A UBI without preconditions will only compound that problem, because what is to stop people from wasting their basic income on frivolities while also drawing from existing welfare programs.

Many people may agree to work for less than the current minimum wage, and on more flexible terms, if they're supplementing a guaranteed income, not scrambling to avoid having to beg for food.

But this is not the case. What everyone seems to forget that despite the low labor force participation rate, the poorest are not starving to death; in fact, they're more likely to be obese than higher earners.

The assumption that a UBI, on top of existing welfare programs, will make people more compelled to work seems like a stretch.

Re: A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

#6
It makes sense if-and-only-if that basic income isn't being doled out by the same organization which also runs the military-industrial or prison-industrial worlds. As an American, I think it's safe to say our federal government can't be trusted to not turn into a tyranny if it's everyone's primary employer.

We would get even more massive corruption almost instantly. For example, some people would lobby to get those tax-revenue intended for the basic income to be redirected to other projects. The people wouldn't fight the loss of a $1/year/person here or there. There would also be reams of special cases to give some people more and some people less. And like today, some people would continue to carve out exceptions so they didn't have to pay those taxes to feed the basic income. That money would be divvied up every way except as a basic income and people would spend all their time fighting over who got it instead of generating the value that backs it.

I don't live in the countries trying this so I can't say if it's safe to give their government that much power, but I know the US government is no where near ready for any more power than they already have.

EDIT: Fixed a typo

Re: A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

#7
post #3

It's not just smarter it's the only possible solution out of the two. Many people wrongly discuss the premise of basic income in the context of whether it's a better solution for for the job market. I.e. as a better way to solve unemployment fluctuations which in this view are still going up. But the whole point about Basic Income is what we do about there being fewer and fewer jobs that pay a proper salary.

Proponents of the UBI make the generous assumption that recipients will be as careful with money as they (the proponents) are . Choosing between food & housing credits vs. cash, the former has less room for abuse.

Its like "I would never use my UBI on alcohol"...well you're not "most people"

Re: A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

#8

It makes sense if-and-only-if that basic income isn't being doled out by the same organization which also runs the military-industrial or prison-industrial worlds. As an American, I think it's safe to say our federal government can't be trusted to not turn into a tyranny if it's everyone's primary employer. We would get even more massive corruption almost instantly. For example, some people would lobby to get those t…

Unfortunately, in the US the alternative to government power is corporate power.

Re: A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

#9

It makes sense if-and-only-if that basic income isn't being doled out by the same organization which also runs the military-industrial or prison-industrial worlds. As an American, I think it's safe to say our federal government can't be trusted to not turn into a tyranny if it's everyone's primary employer. We would get even more massive corruption almost instantly. For example, some people would lobby to get those t…

> The people wouldn't fight the loss of a $1/year/person here or there.

I'm not sure. Around here, people fight [EDIT: against] the 1 cent local sales tax add-on that goes to schools (and can only go to schools).

Re: A Basic Income Is Smarter Than a Minimum Wage

#10

But what about existing entitlement sending, which keeps growing? A UBI without preconditions will only compound that problem, because what is to stop people from wasting their basic income on frivolities while also drawing from existing welfare programs. Many people may agree to work for less than the current minimum wage, and on more flexible terms, if they're supplementing a guaranteed income, not scrambling to av…

I would have thought that a UBI would replace most or all existing entitlement programs. But perhaps people have different ideas?

And you're right, of course, that the poor in the U.S. generally are not literally starving. Though their poor health and high obesity rates are themselves symptoms of their limited access to healthy food, and difficulty maintaining a healthy lifestyle that may be due to other poverty-induced stressors.

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