Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner • Hacker News Board

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#181

Post by eli » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 6:57 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #172

eli wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't miss them? Quite a few of the sites I enjoy are struggling to remain ad supported and I would be sad if they can't find a way to make it work.

Do you enjoy them enough to pay for them?

Sure, sometimes. But it's not easy or possible to pay directly. Paywalls are very tricky to get right and IMHO make the whole site less valuable -- just look at how many complaints there are on HN when someone posts a WSJ.com link. And frankly, I'd rather look at contextually relevant ads than pay money for most sites.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#182

Post by ufmace » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 6:58 PM UTC

vijayr wrote: post #97

nulbyte wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you hit the nail on the head: greed. This was my tipping point. When sites got so greedy that they stopped caring if anyone read their content, I stopped caring if they got paid for obtrusive ads. Even Google has designed some horrendous ads, especially the Nexus ad that grabs swipes on mobile, keeping you from scrolling past it. If the ads stuck to the meatverse-equivalent style of static but attractive, I…

The problem with greed is that it only takes a handful of players to ruin it for everyone. There are still good sites providing quality content and monetizing it responsibly and decently with ads - they will also get hit by ad blockers, as most users would likely block all ads (and we can't blame them for it)

I've been sticking to blocking all ads everywhere for a long time. It feels like every time I start thinking I ought to whitelist a few of the sites with better content, a story comes out about a fresh set of malware via ads attacks on very respectable sites. Another example of advertiser's greed and sloppiness spoiling the pot.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#183

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 6:58 PM UTC

CuriouslyC wrote: post #160

burkaman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, those two categories are basically the same. Middle class people with solid 9-5 jobs and not many other commitments. Some portion of these people create stuff in their free time. The people I'm talking about are either too poor to follow their passions and work for free, or have the time but have decided to channel their passion into something that might make them money. Basically, I have a problem with this quot…

Just because you publish content for free doesn't mean that you don't derive value from it. By establishing yourself as an expert you can (just off the top of my head): - create a market for yourself as a consultant/instructor/offer seminars in that area - charge businesses to feature reviews of their goods and services - sell books/prints/tshirts/(insert relevant merch for type of content here) None of these avenues…

And the greatest value is that you wanted people to hear what you had to say about something, and some did.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#184

Post by tn13 » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

nulbyte wrote: post #55

karterk wrote: post #5

For a very long time, I did not want to use ad blockers. I have used ads in the past to monetize some of my own projects, and I really did not want to stab the creators of quality content. However, last week I finally reversed my decision and started using ad blockers. Why? Frankly, many sites are just greedy. Banners were ugly enough (and I tolerated them) but many sites these days show ads that cover the content, a…

I believe you hit the nail on the head: greed. This was my tipping point. When sites got so greedy that they stopped caring if anyone read their content, I stopped caring if they got paid for obtrusive ads. Even Google has designed some horrendous ads, especially the Nexus ad that grabs swipes on mobile, keeping you from scrolling past it. If the ads stuck to the meatverse-equivalent style of static but attractive, I…

I don't understand the "greed" part. I worked for a publisher which eventually had to put 8 ad units per page and still could not break even and went out of business soon. I don't think trying to pay salaries of employees is greed and if it is then all of us are greedy.

But your solution is right and that is why native ads like Taboola, Outbrain and Revcontent are winning. As times goes by having ads that are not distinguishable from content is what might help these publishers.

PS. There is one more serious side effect of small publishers dieing out. It means Facebook and Twitter might have much more influence public opinion and they may not support diversity of opinion the way an open internet did. Facebook is already taking a pro-migrants stand or Twitter is also helping censor criticism of religion. Survival of small publishers is important.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#185

Post by firebird84 » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

inanutshellus wrote: post #54

eveningcoffee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am with you in this. I saw that people around me started to use AdBlockers and I found first that it is not really fair from them. Until one of the news sites I regularly read was barely usable by always running on 100% CPU, which means it was not possible to open it on multiple tabs without making my computer fully unusable. And until Google started to use video ads in my region. I figured that it would be better…

I actually like seeing ads (though I wish they weren't coming from omniscient ad networks and were instead coming from the sites I was visiting). Content providers get money, I get free content. Nice. HTML5 Video Ads are what finally switched me to ad blockers. When people served static images and Adobe Flash videos, I could just disable auto-play of Flash, and voila, I see ads, but don't get obnoxious videos on rand…

I don't know about chrome, but in firefox you can disable autoplay on HTML5 now. It's a bit annoying for watching youtube because it assumes the video is already playing (you have to go click the pause and then click play) but annoying news sites and other nonsense don't bother me anymore.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#186

Post by wslh » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #105

wslh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Businesses have to come up with better monetization strategies. I don't like Ads but possibly there is no general way to monetize content and this is the problem. With lot of freely available value on Internet it is really difficult to convert it to $$$.

Sure there is. I have a creative skill to make information. If anyone in the world wants that information, they can pay me to make it, and then after that I've already been paid, I can release it CC0 and let the world go nuts with it. The problems of online DRM / ad ridden websites / etc are all attempts to after the fact monetize information using obsolete IP policy while acting like there is any scarcity to it at a…

> Sure there is. I have a creative skill to make information. If anyone in the world wants that information, they can pay me to make it, and then after that I've already been paid, I can release it CC0 and let the world go nuts with it.

You are underestimating the search cost problem there [1] I 100% know my company is in a niche market where our revenue can be > $ 50 million/year and where we have some unique offerings BUT the problem is how I can penetrate those companies or how they can found me, not if I can do the job.

So, what you are saying is true but how will the find you? If they try to find you by your skills how do you rank against others on a search engine/app store/etc? Even worst, probably they express the search query in a different domain that the one where you market yourself.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_cost

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#187

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:15 PM UTC

burkaman wrote: post #165

CuriouslyC wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you publish content for free doesn't mean that you don't derive value from it. By establishing yourself as an expert you can (just off the top of my head): - create a market for yourself as a consultant/instructor/offer seminars in that area - charge businesses to feature reviews of their goods and services - sell books/prints/tshirts/(insert relevant merch for type of content here) None of these avenues…

That's a great list of things that poor people, people with families, people with busy lives for any reason can't do. You need to first establish yourself as an expert, for free, with all of your free time. Regardless, this is all possible right now. "if content was free"? Content can be free, there's lots of it. Removing every way for non-experts to make money would only hurt people, it wouldn't help anyone. It woul…

What's the benefit for society that poor people have the ability to marginally add to their income by writing words that they don't care if anybody reads?

Generally, the reason I say things to people is that I want them to hear what I'm saying, not because every time I can sneak in an endorsement of a product (that I haven't even selected), I get a nickel. I can want them to hear because I want to improve their lives, because I want to appeal to their consciences, because I'm an exhibitionist, because I want to coordinate activities with them, or even because I want them to give me money (not for a long time, and I'm sure my parents are happy about that.)

How did the last become the only one that is legitimate, and the only one that it considered a realistic source of motivation for providing the public with a range of things that they want to see or hear?

It's weird that the preservation of purposeless words is a concern of people. I would expect the people who think that we need a financial motivation to express themselves would largely conduct themselves through life silently.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#188

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:20 PM UTC

klunger wrote: post #102

CuriouslyC wrote: post #100

People question how we'll support content without ads, but I have to take a step back and wonder - is content that needs to be supported really that valuable? Might the world be a better place without it? People who are passionate about the subject they are writing on are going to publish regardless of ad revenue, assuming they get hits (writing stuff nobody reads is a fast track to burnout). Right now, in many cases…

No. You are basically saying that people should work for free if they are passionate about it. Professional writers cannot pay their bills with passion. Same with artists, musicians etc, and every other underpaid profession. Just because they (hopefully) like what they do, does not mean it is not work or does not have value.

> Just because they (hopefully) like what they do, does not mean it is not work or does not have value.

Nothing has value. Value is assigned to something by people who are willing to pay. I wouldn't say that people should work for free; I would say that people shouldn't do something if they don't want to.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#189

Post by spacehome » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #177

trolly wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity could you give a couple examples?

Well, first off: full disclosure that my startup is ad-supported business news sites. So feel free to consider me biased, but the reason I started the company with this model is because I really believe news websites work best when anyone can read the articles without paying a fee or signing up for an account. Off the top of my head maybe a good example is http://popville.com/ which is a local DC blog. The guy who ru…

So considered.

I have no real issue with people who want to put ads on sites. My tolerance ends, however, when they try to moralize to me about how I render hypertext on my own machine. My attention and mental health are worth more to me than the ad impression ever could ever be to the marketer. Occasionally a site will refuse to serve articles unless I turn off my adblocker, and every time I just close the tab with no regrets.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#190

Post by tanker » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #184

nulbyte wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you hit the nail on the head: greed. This was my tipping point. When sites got so greedy that they stopped caring if anyone read their content, I stopped caring if they got paid for obtrusive ads. Even Google has designed some horrendous ads, especially the Nexus ad that grabs swipes on mobile, keeping you from scrolling past it. If the ads stuck to the meatverse-equivalent style of static but attractive, I…

I don't understand the "greed" part. I worked for a publisher which eventually had to put 8 ad units per page and still could not break even and went out of business soon. I don't think trying to pay salaries of employees is greed and if it is then all of us are greedy. But your solution is right and that is why native ads like Taboola, Outbrain and Revcontent are winning. As times goes by having ads that are not dis…

The idea of ads indistinguishable from content is troubling. I agree this is a probable outcome. It sounds like food for conspiracy theories. I see two paths. First, ads so good you seek them out knowing they are advertising. This would be similar to a good catalog. Second, you are looking for content and find something produced by a company without your knowledge. It would be easy to produce "Top 10" lists or other style of content that favors your products. In that scenario, trust becomes the valuable commodity.