Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#141

Post by J-dawg » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #82

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that low speed driving and parking in very narrow streets is much easier for an autonomous system than for a person. All those obstacles are made of stone so nice juicy returns for the sensor systems. Carrying out a turn with a centimetre of clearance from a hard surface is much easier for a computer than maintaining lane discipline on a road with faded markings at high speed.

A lot of impact avoidance with other vehicles and pedestrians is done by communicating with looking at each other though. The easiest solution, car always yields, would just mean it will take forever to move because people will lose all respect and just treat it like a solid obstacle. Also, sometimes cars can and do pass within a few cms to humans (ok if everyone is aware of the maneuver and it's slow), would an auto…

> The easiest solution, car always yields, would just mean it will take forever to move because people will lose all respect and just treat it like a solid obstacle.

I've often wondered how self-driving cars will deal with this. Imagine we reach the point where self driving cars are perceived as being guaranteed to stop before hitting a pedestrian.

This presents a lot of problems that need to be overcome. A car-jacker could rob you simply by getting an accomplice to stand in front of your car. Teenagers might start jumping in front of cars as a high-tech game of chicken. What happens when somebody steps into the road and the car brakes so hard it gives the occupants whiplash?

I'm sure all of these problems will be solved in time, but it's going to be interesting to see how!

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#142

Post by dominotw » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #15

Tesla could have done a better job communicating that the internal look or feel wasn't finalised. Clearly that didn't impact pre-orders but I think a lot of people didn't love the internal look even if they thought it was nice looking externally (disclaimer: I was one of these people). In my OPINION the 3 won't be fully self driving (for certification/legal reasons). But we can reasonably speculate that it will have…

>auto-braking, lane keep assist, automatic cruise control, and similar

I bought a mazda cx recently with all of these feature. I must say I don't find any of these really useful, but again I don't text while driving.

I think these features breed a false sense of security and encourage users to text while driving. Features like these should be introduced only when they can protect users from all cases of distracted driving not just one or two situations.

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#143

Post by andersen1488 » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #122

"Musk said the company was hoping for 0.21 drag coefficient. That's exceedingly sleek." I looked into this. 0.21 is insanely low for a production car. How come this isn't bigger news? This alone is fascinating.

The Model S is already at 0.24 (most efficient car in production)

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#144

Post by marssaxman » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:42 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #85

yoodenvranx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a 500 m long street in front of my house where it is customary that people cross it everywhere and cars are just expected to stop for the people. There are no traffic lights or pedestrian crossing or any special rules, its just that people started doing this decades ago and now it is just tradition to do this. So now you have a long street where tons of people are crossing every 10 meters during the day beca…

Don't forget computers have vastly faster response times than people. A car going 5mph with 10ms reaction times can stop in ~1 foot. http://www.random-science-tools.com/physics/stopping-distanc...

Do you want to be inside the car when it does that? It is not going to be much fun unless you are paying attention and bracing yourself, in which case I'm not sure I see the advantage of letting the computer do it for you.

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#145

Post by vvanders » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:42 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #139

vvanders wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually a subtle difference, with an ICE you pay for the larger displacement with more fuel usage at idle and inefficient RPM ranges(things like VVT help mitigate it but physics is physics). For EVs you're largely just fighting against Ohm's law(constant voltage requires that you draw more amps which means resistance generates heat, etc) and to a lesser degree weight. Which has much less impact like you note…

> My basic understanding of ICEs is that they are most efficient when you can run them at a specific RPM(and tune for that RPM) which is why you see Diesel-Electric Locomotives where the ICE largely acts as a generator. That's spot on. This is why you can't use the cam from a generator on a car and vice versa (even if it is otherwise the exact same engine, such as with the Willy's engine). The cam on a generator will…

Yup, was aware of point #2 as well. They mitigate that in part by backing up too(thus putting slack in the cars) before moving forward. Always fun to hear the cars going thunk, thunk, thunk as they get ready to head out.

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#146

Post by alvern » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:44 PM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #122

"Musk said the company was hoping for 0.21 drag coefficient. That's exceedingly sleek." I looked into this. 0.21 is insanely low for a production car. How come this isn't bigger news? This alone is fascinating.

The first gen honda insight had a drag coefficient of .25. If you could remove the radiator, intake, and exhaust from the engine and drivetrain it would be possible to hit .21 on a production car.

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#147

Post by teh_klev » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

smackfu wrote: post #124

Someone1234 wrote: post #15

Tesla could have done a better job communicating that the internal look or feel wasn't finalised. Clearly that didn't impact pre-orders but I think a lot of people didn't love the internal look even if they thought it was nice looking externally (disclaimer: I was one of these people). In my OPINION the 3 won't be fully self driving (for certification/legal reasons). But we can reasonably speculate that it will have…

They barely communicated anything at the reveal. It was like a few minutes of leadup, five bullet points about the 3, and then they showed the cars and ended it. Given the audience they had, a bit of a wasted opportunity.

I wouldn't exactly call ~300,000 one thousand dollar deposits in less than 4 days a wasted opportunity.

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#148

Post by jusben1369 » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

jon_dahl wrote: post #113

jusben1369 wrote: post #84

One of the things I find fascinating, and that Tesla has to grapple with at some point with real ramifications, is: are they a self driving car company that just happens to be an electric car company? Or the other way around? I would argue that electric car companies are appealing to a much smaller subset of potential customers than are self driving cars. But the mission behind each is very different and that flows i…

I think the whole point of Tesla is to be an excellent car company. "Electric" and "self-driving" just happen to be two attributes of an excellent car company at this particular point in history.

I would strongly disagree. Tesla was never really about being a car company.

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#149

Post by jandrese » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

andersen1488 wrote: post #143

spectrum1234 wrote: post #122

"Musk said the company was hoping for 0.21 drag coefficient. That's exceedingly sleek." I looked into this. 0.21 is insanely low for a production car. How come this isn't bigger news? This alone is fascinating.

The Model S is already at 0.24 (most efficient car in production)

I'm guessing Tesla gets to cheat a bit since they don't use heat engines and don't have to run a bunch of air over a giant mesh screen to keep the engine from burning up.

Also, that giant pane of smooth glass over the top probably helps.

Re: Tesla Intrigue Deepens with Musk's Twitter Barrage

#150

Post by spectrum1234 » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

philfrasty wrote: post #36

yoodenvranx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point, can it be anything other than full autonomous? There is no way that autonomous driving is going to work in most small European town and villages. There are so many downtowns which were never meant to be used by car and it is already difficult to navigate those places as a human. I just don't see how this should work over here in Europe. Selfdriving on the highway or in a typical suburban sprawl in th…

One scenario that I keep thinking about all the time: traffic in most south-east asian countries like Vietnam (Hanoi for example). The streets are occupied by a mix of cars, pedestrians (+ animals) and motorcycles. Everything moves ultra close. Must be a nightmare for every car proximity-sensor.

I agree that this is a really bad example. Especially as I was in Hanoi 5 days ago.

I witnessed 2 car accidents when I was there and both were vehicles turning (slowly) and clipping motorbikes in their blind spots. Not gonna happen with a computer.