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Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

bbc.com

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Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#261

Post by maus42 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #87
sievebrain wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leak is of historical documents dating back decades, not a snapshot of current setups. So I don't see why that'd affect anything. I really doubt this is some sort of official leak though. Governments hate leaks of all kinds.

>Governments hate leaks of all kinds. Not in the UK. Leaks and "off the record briefings" are practically official government policy. To me this looks like a rather stupid attempt to promote regime change in Russia. Putin was weakened by the low oil price, and now this has all the signs of a bizarre poli-sci undergraduate plot to push him over the edge. I'll change my mind if a list of significant British and US pols…

Is PM Cameron enough?

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#262

Post by Mikeb85 »

randomname2 wrote: post #24

Selected quote: "The ICIJ findings include evidence that: - Offshore companies linked to the family of China's top leader, Xi Jinping, as well as Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who has positioned himself as a reformer in a country shaken by corruption scandals - 29 billionaires featured in Forbes Magazine's list of the world's 500 richest people - Icelandic Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson and his w…

> Associates of Russian President Vladimir Putin secretly shuffled as much as $2 billion through banks and shadow companies

So where's the other $198 billion?

> Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who has positioned himself as a reformer in a country shaken by corruption scandals

Not surprising. An oligarch doing oligarch things. Surprised anyone thought he'd be anything but corrupt.

> Movie star Jackie Chan, who had at least six companies managed through the law firm

Guy who makes movies owns companies, imagine that?

Some of this is rather pedestrian, some interesting...

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#264

Post by alfiedotwtf »

r3bl wrote: post #143
wyck wrote: post #21

Panama just passed compliance with FATF (February 2016) and it's a message that their political leader/law firm owner/world's largest money launderer (his name is in the OP's title) is no longer open for business after decades of being the go-to place for hidden $$$. http://www.fatf-gafi.org/countries/#Panama "The FATF recognised that Algeria, Angola and Panama have made significant progress in improving their regime…

> Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure. Yes they do and you're welcome. Sincerely, somebody who worked on this for way too long and practically hasn't left the office this entire weekend.

The 1% having their pants down is the type of transparency we need.

Sincerely, Thank You!

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#265

Post by harry8 »

tootie wrote: post #244
UVB-76 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, being featured in these documents is not in and of itself evidence of any wrongdoing. There are entirely lawful and legitimate reasons for making use of offshore company structures.

There's a lot of noise being made over the number of documents, but I'm not seeing anything actually interesting about this. Offshore banking has been extremely common for a very long time and isn't illegal in and of itself. The hidden funds need to be provably originating from from an illicit source.

Ok, I'll bite. What do you think Vlad Putin's legit source is for his billions? His paycheck? Sometimes you don't have to know all the details. Somtimes the mere fact of a bank account with billions in it is enough to know, with certainty that a politician has his/her hand in the till and is a corrupt bastard.

I pick on Vlad, there's plenty more to choose from. Now the evidence exists to remove doubt from the accusation of corruption for, it would seem, a lot of politicians.

Jackie Chan - Wealthy movie star. Plenty of good explanations for why he'd engage in offshore banking with his very large, legitimately gained, fortune.

That's the difference.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#266

Post by wavefunction »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #98
tomp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, we are proud that there's so much interest to the Russian politics, that we are treated as important part of the world and that we do matter. The only reason Russia "matters" is that it's non-compliant to the Western interests. The only kind of "freely-elected" government that the West would approve of is one that would bend to its wishes. Take a look at Ukraine to see what happens to elected governments t…

There are plenty of reasons why Russia matters, and non-compliance is not the one of them. To name few: nuclear weapons, vast natural resources (including fresh water), great cultural heritage. And quite good representation in tech, btw. The West is not a Satan, like some ayatollas would say, and Russia is not the Last Fortress standing against his armies. As for Ukraine, unfortunately it is the failed state, that is…

I appreciate your perspective on your country and the world. I'm a USian but I agree with you and can't fault Russia for resisting the neoliberal/neoconservative Empire erected by the Western elites.

Russians (and the rest of us?) are supposed to fall meekly into line in the world created by the likes of GWB, Victoria Nuland, Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld, David Cameron and Merkl? No thanks.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#267

Post by mcphage »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #181
UVB-76 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, being featured in these documents is not in and of itself evidence of any wrongdoing. There are entirely lawful and legitimate reasons for making use of offshore company structures.

I'd replace wrongdoing with illegal. If you ask me, if you're a billionaire and you're not willing to pay taxes and spend 0.0001% of your wealth on the expertise to reduce your tax bill by 99%, in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in, then by all means that's wrongdoing to me and I think most would be with me on that. Of course it's not necessarily illegal.

> in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in

This finally sounds like an industry that's ripe for disruption—Tax Loopholes For Everyone!

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#268

Post by chriscappuccio »

prawn wrote: post #231
ryanlol wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about non billionaires? These arrangements aren't overly expensive and are very much suitable for perfectly "ordinary" people.

That's what shits me. If it's smart, viable strategy, why not make it available by default for every citizen with a basic tax framework instead of something only available to the wealth to push further ahead?

yearly costs can be quite high, including attorneys fees that come with regular government scrutiny

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#269

Post by 3pt14159 »

prawn wrote: post #231
ryanlol wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about non billionaires? These arrangements aren't overly expensive and are very much suitable for perfectly "ordinary" people.

That's what shits me. If it's smart, viable strategy, why not make it available by default for every citizen with a basic tax framework instead of something only available to the wealth to push further ahead?

It's an arms race. As corporate income tax receipts dry up countries change their policies. Very wealthy, naturally international companies not only have more resources to compete, they also have the ability to play hard ball and leave the country entirely (see tax inversions of pharmaceutical companies from America to Europe) bringing not just the lost corporate tax, but the income tax on salaries as well.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#270

Post by lokahi2k »

I read that it's unlikely that U.S. citizens would use this Panamanian firm for offshore dealings because of the tax reporting laws between Panama & the U.S. They would use a different firm. Is this correct, and can anyone elaborate or point me to sources on this?
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