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Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

bbc.com

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Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#121

Post by osweiller »

wyck wrote: post #109
discreteevent wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Real leaks don't have fancy websites" How something looks. It really is the shallowest form of dismissal, since the days of the village gossips.

Your missing the point, it's clear they this leak is planned and not someone just uploading a bunch of files. People don't seem to understand what I mean by the above^. The question is would it not be better to dump the entire data set to the public, instead of it being funnelled by reporters?

They state at the very outset that they worked on the data for over a year, doing OCR, analyzing, digesting, cross-referencing, etc. No one is presenting a false front -- they aren't claiming that this is a bunch of files that they got yesterday, and instead are quite up front that they've done a lot of leg work on top of it.

So yes, the presentation was clearly "planned". That doesn't make the data any less real.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#122

Post by ptaipale »

usaphp wrote: post #30

> as well as Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who has positioned himself as a reformer in a country shaken by corruption scandals I wonder how Ukrainians ,who fight for him and his "freedom" ideas, will react to this

Well, probably in a similar way those who fight for the so-called Donetsk people's republic and whatever will react to Putin's dealings.

We know that they know that we know that they know that their leading politicians are corrupt. Everyone fights for their corrupt politicians. It is very hard for Poroshenko to exceed the corruption reputation of the previous guy in office.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#123

Post by TillE »

supergirl wrote: post #69
Jerry2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the British and (especially) German [0] media are virulently anti-Russian. They blame Russians for all of their ills. Societal problems? Blame Russians. Anything that happens in their countries, they manage to find an angle to blame it on Russians somehow. Norway [1] & Sweden are also under a constant paranoia that Russians are just days away from invading them. But nothing compares to German media when it comes…

this getting heavily downvoted is telling of how well the propaganda is working in the west.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic to the claims of anti-Russian "propaganda" if it weren't for, you know, the whole thing with illegally invading and annexing part of another country.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#124

Post by mlvljr »

sievebrain wrote: post #71
usaphp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so they can talk about Putin's childhood friend, but not about Cameron's father?

No, I thought that was kind of dumb too, but I've got used to western media constantly dumping on Putin regardless of the merits of the case so I just ignore it now. Like, I just skip any part of the Economist that talks about Russia because their coverage of the topic is so hilariously unbalanced.

Highfiving you from Russia :)

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#125

Post by tomp »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #118
usaphp wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe that western media care a single bit about free elections in Russia? The only reason they care about it is because The position of Russia government does not match the western narrative.

I did not say anything about my beliefs and it is not important WHY do they care about Russia. The only thing that is important, is the result - whether these critics are justified, whether they serve Russian interests or not. They do serve. If this was not someone's goal, shame on that guy, he failed. If it was, thanks to him, he did his job well.

> whether they serve Russian interests or not. They do serve.

You're assuming that free elections would benefit common Russians. They wouldn't. You're right about one thing, though: it wouldn't be Putin and his cronies siphoning all of Russia's wealth (resourceful citizens, natural resources, ...). It would be the western conglomerates.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#126

Post by mschuster91 »

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #62
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why it's good that this massive pile of data is analyzed by a huge load of international newspapers. This way, papers can selectively publish stuff that won't put themselves in too grave danger - just look what happened to The Guardian with the Snowden leak (visits from three-letter agency officials) or what happens in Turkey, Ukraine or Hungary with media that dares to publish stuff too offensive to the res…

I mean sure journalists and meme-makers will spin this however it suits them, but I thought here in the west we're assured that we have freedom of press. This type of obvious slant certainly doesn't make it seem that way.

> but I thought here in the west we're assured that we have freedom of press

Hell no. As long as crap like NSLs (or other secret gag orders, see UK), anti-whistleblower laws or (esp. USA) actually independent media with mass reach exist, there is no freedom of the press.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#127

Post by cm3 »

snitko wrote: post #120
Kliment wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? By evading taxes they are stealing from hundreds of millions of people.

That's your opinion. I think taxation is extortion. Who's to say I'm not entitled to my point of view?

Ignoring fairness of certain taxes and issues with tax laws in general, taxes are the rent one has to pay for living in a place. If you don't have income you usually won't pay most taxes at all. It's arguable how much of the tax system works and what parts are just plain broken and favor certain interest groups, but that's an implementation detail. If you visit places where much of the population evades taxes, you'll find that the state of roads and infrastructure in general is worse than someplace with people paying their taxes. I'm with you if you argue that tax laws are unfair and do not reflect the live circumstances of most people.

If there were no taxes, you'd probably have to buy tickets to walk and drive on roads, stroll in the park, swim in a sea, etc. I suppose you want more of a pay-what-you-use society where, if you just stay at one place most of the time, you pay considerably less taxes. Whether that can work universally I don't know.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#128

Post by cb18 »

sievebrain wrote: post #50
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #29

Hilarious that BBC, a broadcaster paid for by British tax payers, has a subheading in that article titled "Russian connection" describing various dealings of Russian characters who are "close associates" of Putin and an equally sordid "Iceland connection" but not even a mention of David Cameron's father's tax evading schemes listed in the documents which the people of Great Britain should be vastly more interested in…

Maybe, but "father of a PM" is not even close to the same thing as "PM". If Cameron's father has done something wrong, that doesn't (shouldn't) affect perceptions of his son. The days of punishing children for the crimes of their parents are long in the past. Assuming the guy did anything wrong, of course. As these articles note, off shore companies are not illegal.

>The days of punishing children for the crimes of their parents are long in the past.

Except if the victims are white. Then so many people like to play the game of attempting to justify contemporary offence/injustice X, with historical event Y.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#129

Post by alkonaut »

usaphp wrote: post #92
ivan_gammel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Russian citizen I find this critical position actually pro-Russian. It's in our interest to have a professional government and a president elected on transparent and free elections, to fight corruption and to work for the prosperity of our Homeland and for happiness of all our people. The government, the president, the courts and the deputees of parliament that do not satisfy these criteria can and shall be cri…

Do you really believe that western media care a single bit about free elections in Russia? The only reason they care about it is because The position of Russia government does not match the western narrative.

> Ohh, please stop, do you really believe that western media care a single bit about free elections in Russia?

I think any person in the "west" would be delighted to see free elections in Russia. Why wouldn't we? Since it would be a missive influence on our lives, of course western media should care!

A government elected by popular vote would be stabilizing to the region (and the world) since it wouldn't have the same need of maintaining poopularity by inventing an external enemy (and at regular intervals, creating one, if necessary).

> "does not match the western narrative"

What is the "western narrative" really?

I suppose one historical "western narrative" is that the Soviet Union was dissolved in the early 90's, and that the borders drawn then are those of sovereign states who each have a choice of trade/military alliance. I'm getting increasingly worried that this isn't the historical narrative tought in some schools in parts of the former union.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#130

Post by kgwgk »

usaphp wrote: post #36
nextos wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leo Messi too, who had already been caught on another scandal by Spanish Tax Office.

Not Leo messi, but the company who operates his money. The recent case that Spanish tax office opened against him was in regards to a payment that has happened when he was 17 year old...I doubt that messi at 17 yo was the one who was dealing with his taxes

He was not 17 when he set up another shell company in Panama:

Mega Star Enterprises, the offshore company owned by Messi and his father at least as far back as 2013, is not mentioned in the Spanish government’s 2014 and 2015 indictments against the pair. The leaked records show Messi signed at least one document reflecting his ownership of Mega Star

http://indianexpress.com/article/sports/football/panama-pape...

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