How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution • Hacker News Board

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#81

Post by jp555 » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:39 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #64

rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

My biggest concern is that along with the nitrogen and phosphate runoff come pesticides and other less savory compounds that then bio-accumulate in the farmed shellfish.

Do they bioaccumulate? What exact compounds are your concerned about?

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#82

Post by ChuckMcM » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:48 PM UTC

I felt the "we will employ anyone" message was one that was also very important here. If we can train people to be sea farmers and give them a mission that is both good for the world and good for their own self esteem, I think that would be at least as valuable as the food grown, if not more so.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#83

Post by chuckledog » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

This is excellent, in multiple ways. The main things humans are adding here are a) pollution and b) good strong fishing line. We're pretty good at both of those things...

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#84

Post by fblp » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:11 PM UTC

This is awesome. I hesitate to bring in a Silicon Valley cliché, but would anyone else want to subscribe to deliveries of this food?

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#85

Post by petra » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

>> Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get.

I think biomanufacturing of protein via bacteria/algae could be the cheapest. For example there's even a company, prottero, making sugar via bacteria at 1/3 of the cost of sugar cane.

And theoretically with those of methods , you might be able to feed the world from an area the size of new jersey.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#86

Post by SeanDav » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:22 PM UTC

> "Imagine a vertical underwater garden with hurricane-proof anchors on the edges..."

I love this idea but am sceptical on the idea of hurricane proof anchors. Hurricane resistant more likely. Although, in his defence, having these farms together with many anchors, makes them even more resistant. The author basically says this later in the article when he talks about the farms being storm breaks.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#87

Post by stcredzero » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:29 PM UTC

SeanDav wrote: post #86

> "Imagine a vertical underwater garden with hurricane-proof anchors on the edges..." I love this idea but am sceptical on the idea of hurricane proof anchors. Hurricane resistant more likely. Although, in his defence, having these farms together with many anchors, makes them even more resistant. The author basically says this later in the article when he talks about the farms being storm breaks.

I love this idea but am sceptical on the idea of hurricane proof anchors.

Surface waves cause circular motions in water. The closer you are to the bottom of the ocean, the smaller these circles get. The tendency is that the farther underwater you are, the easier it is to resist wave action. The issue isn't whether one can make things hurricane proof. The issue is the economic feasibility of making something sufficiently hurricane proof.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#88

Post by coredog64 » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #65

logicrook wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree much. If you look outside of CS and mathematics, where FLOSS principles are widely represented, in most domains it is very hard to access the knowledge. Besides the experts protecting their expertise, there are some fields where they actively try to discourage any such dissemination of knowledge to protect the interest of the trade -medicine, where there is also a question of accountability- or to pr…

Medicine (and many other "closed" subjects) is widely taught in schools - it is not a secret guild. You can also go to school for agriculture, to learn about the growth of crops and about livestock management. The difference is that this ocean farming is a new endeavor by a small group. It's not like CS or math where independent researchers can download a compiler or pick up a notebook and verify or extend other stud…

Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity. Sure, medicine and law are widely taught. Those same two groups work to ensure that it's very difficult to acquire and apply that knowledge. Getting into med school is difficult and expensive, with a license to practice even more so.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#89

Post by stcredzero » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:47 PM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #73

bradleyjg wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distillation should have no problem dealing with heavy metals. Other nasty things though are azeotropic with either water or ethanol and would have to be accounted for if you wanted to make drinkable vodka. Contaminants are less of a concern if you are looking to make fuel rather than booze.

I recall seeing some early biofuel powered busses that smelled like frenchfries because they used recycled deep fryer oil. I don't know how popular they'd be if they smelled like Bronx clam.

I operated an old Mercedes on biodiesel for a number of years. The cheapest biodiesel was sourced from animal slaughter waste.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#90

Post by joshuaheard » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:51 PM UTC

It's a great idea, the issue is scalability. To have an aquatic farm that touches the bottom, you could only use the ocean area with depths between 20 and 200 feet. Higher than that, and you have surface turbulence. Lower than that, and there is not enough light for lots of plants or fish. That narrow range of depths is a small sliver along our coasts. An area the size of Washington state, as mentioned in the article, between 20-200 feet, (without doing the math) would probably run along the entire west coast of the U.S. (assuming you could overcome the political hurdles of coastal development).

To make it scalable, the farms must be able to function in the open ocean, regardless of depth. If he could figure that out, it would truly be an aquatic revolution.