Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X' • Hacker News Board

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#11

Post by Razengan » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #8

Razengan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If certain science fiction is to believed, there is a pan-dimensional super-intelligence that feeds on all sentience once they cross a certain technological level, so it's all futile anyway.

In my opinion it's much more likely that sentient beings apathy themselves into extinction. Humans already show a tendency towards addiction to technology that exploits dopamine triggers, as social networks like Facebook do. Now imagine a world in which matrix style neural implants give you all the dopamine fulfillment that you want with no need for any effort. And combine this neural implant replacement for reality…

> It seems probable that such neural implant tech and automation could be created long before a practical interstellar travel solution is created, which would also be a depressing, but realistic explanation for the Fermi paradox.

So everyone out there is basically sleeping in their beds? :)

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#12

Post by fsiefken » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

It seems like a variant of the Nemesis theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_%28hypothetical_star%2... which according to Adrain Mellott and Richard Bambach the regularity of the mass extinctions cannot be due to a dark star or brown dwarf or other large mass as it's orbit would have been perturbed by close encounters with other stars long ago. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/419809/the-death-of-nemes...

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#13

Post by Panoramix » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

jhwhite wrote: post #9

greenwalls wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to know where we are currently on this theoretical mass extinction cycle. Hopefully we have a few million years left.

This is what I came to ask. We won't have an exact year but I wonder how accurate of a range we could get. Within the next ~100-200 years?

Don't hold your breath, the margin of error on these things is about 1 million years.

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#14

Post by cubano » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #8

Razengan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If certain science fiction is to believed, there is a pan-dimensional super-intelligence that feeds on all sentience once they cross a certain technological level, so it's all futile anyway.

In my opinion it's much more likely that sentient beings apathy themselves into extinction. Humans already show a tendency towards addiction to technology that exploits dopamine triggers, as social networks like Facebook do. Now imagine a world in which matrix style neural implants give you all the dopamine fulfillment that you want with no need for any effort. And combine this neural implant replacement for reality…

So in the end, you envision addiction destroying humanity.

It's an interesting insight but I can't really see it happening the way you describe.

There are already many substances (opiates, crack, meth to name a few), some that have been around for centuries, that give intense dopamine-release rushes.

Yet, only a small percentage of people, around 5-10%, seem to have the addictive personality required to completely disengage from reality and destroy their lives with these substances.

The human species has millions of years of evolutionary programming to survive the nuerodystopia you predict.

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#15

Post by jmount » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

greenwalls wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to know where we are currently on this theoretical mass extinction cycle. Hopefully we have a few million years left.

This paper ( http://arxiv.org/pdf/1007.0437v1.pdf ) estimates 11 million years into a 27 million year cycle. So a typical mid-point position (yey!).

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#16

Post by NathanKP » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #11

NathanKP wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion it's much more likely that sentient beings apathy themselves into extinction. Humans already show a tendency towards addiction to technology that exploits dopamine triggers, as social networks like Facebook do. Now imagine a world in which matrix style neural implants give you all the dopamine fulfillment that you want with no need for any effort. And combine this neural implant replacement for reality…

> It seems probable that such neural implant tech and automation could be created long before a practical interstellar travel solution is created, which would also be a depressing, but realistic explanation for the Fermi paradox. So everyone out there is basically sleeping in their beds? :)

That'd be my guess. The tech wouldn't even have to be that sophisticated to be the most addictive thing ever, unfortunately.

Your brain already has the ability to hallucinate worlds very vividly (in fact it does so every night when you sleep). All you need is a device that keeps you sleeping and dreaming, while periodically triggering your brain to dump a bunch of dopamine.

Maybe I'm just too nihilistic, but the way I see the only thing that truly motivates people is that dopamine reward loop in the brain. All the things people enjoy: work and invention, eating, sex, art, even religion are only enjoyable because our brain rewards us by releasing some chemicals in our brains when we participate in them.

Now imagine a neural implant that makes you feel like you simultaneously ate a great meal, had the best orgasm of your life, and did the best work of your life. And you can get this basically free without any real work. There would probably be 100% addiction rate on this thing. Anyone who tried it would be forever ruined on reality.

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#17

Post by garrettgrimsley » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #11

NathanKP wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion it's much more likely that sentient beings apathy themselves into extinction. Humans already show a tendency towards addiction to technology that exploits dopamine triggers, as social networks like Facebook do. Now imagine a world in which matrix style neural implants give you all the dopamine fulfillment that you want with no need for any effort. And combine this neural implant replacement for reality…

> It seems probable that such neural implant tech and automation could be created long before a practical interstellar travel solution is created, which would also be a depressing, but realistic explanation for the Fermi paradox. So everyone out there is basically sleeping in their beds? :)

No, their rotting corpse is laying there, and there are no children or grandchildren there to mourn them (or carry on the existence of the species) because they never had any offspring. As Cubano said, I don't think this is too likely. Some people would see what's happening and simply never hook up.

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#18

Post by chuckledog » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:11 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #7

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a fun read. What particular story are you thinking about?

I was thinking of Star Control, an old game series which was the inspiration for Mass Effect apparently. There's a few other stories like that I'm sure. SPOILERS AHEAD In SC, there's a race of beings that wakes up once in a while whenever technology levels in the galaxy reach saturation, and basically eats up all sentient species. One highly-advanced species manages to escape the last cycle by devolving themselves in…

Awesome game series! Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Control_II#The_Ur-Quan_...

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#19

Post by NathanKP » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #14

NathanKP wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion it's much more likely that sentient beings apathy themselves into extinction. Humans already show a tendency towards addiction to technology that exploits dopamine triggers, as social networks like Facebook do. Now imagine a world in which matrix style neural implants give you all the dopamine fulfillment that you want with no need for any effort. And combine this neural implant replacement for reality…

So in the end, you envision addiction destroying humanity. It's an interesting insight but I can't really see it happening the way you describe. There are already many substances (opiates, crack, meth to name a few), some that have been around for centuries, that give intense dopamine-release rushes. Yet, only a small percentage of people, around 5-10%, seem to have the addictive personality required to completely di…

People who don't get addicted to chemical drugs don't get addicted because they have things in their lives (rewarding work, good relationships/sex, religion and other forms of self actualization) which gives them dopamine triggers that are more enjoyable than the drug.

On the other hand people who lack things that give them the natural dopamine trigger tend to get highly addicted to chemicals that trigger the dopamine release artificially.

I'll admit I'm a highly pessimistic person but from what I see we are trending more and more towards automation and AI that will remove the need and even the possibility of having many of those natural dopamine triggers.

Imagine a world where its impossible to invent or create anything new because an AI more capable than you has already created it, and what's more the frontier of what the AI is capable of is expanding faster than your mind can physically catch up with so you will never be able to match it, ever.

And in this world when it comes to work or art there is always an AI/robot that can do it astronomically better than you can. Maybe you still get a feeling of reward from relationships with other people, but more likely the AI is better at relationships than you are, and most people in the world only have relationships with instances of the AI because that is more rewarding.

My nihilistic prediction is that our evolutionary programming won't be able to keep up with technology past a certain point, and instead we'll just be held back by our animal programming.

Re: Researcher links mass extinctions to 'Planet X'

#20

Post by dev1n » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #14

NathanKP wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion it's much more likely that sentient beings apathy themselves into extinction. Humans already show a tendency towards addiction to technology that exploits dopamine triggers, as social networks like Facebook do. Now imagine a world in which matrix style neural implants give you all the dopamine fulfillment that you want with no need for any effort. And combine this neural implant replacement for reality…

So in the end, you envision addiction destroying humanity. It's an interesting insight but I can't really see it happening the way you describe. There are already many substances (opiates, crack, meth to name a few), some that have been around for centuries, that give intense dopamine-release rushes. Yet, only a small percentage of people, around 5-10%, seem to have the addictive personality required to completely di…

We now face the danger, which in the past has been the most destructive to the humans: Success, plenty, comfort and ever-increasing leisure. No dynamic people has ever survived these dangers.

- John Steinbeck [1]

[1]: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/559551-we-now-face-the-dang...