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How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

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Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#61

Post by justinclift »

jacobolus wrote: post #6
seabrookmx wrote: post #4

I'd imagine there would be some impact on the native ecosystem. You can't prevent the seed from escaping the aquafarm and (potentially invasive) oysters and kelps growing where they normally would not, displacing local species. That said.. the small footprint of these farms means you could probably localize this impact, or pick areas that are at a lower risk for farming. Potentially the biggest hurdle here would be r…

If there are many thousands of edible sea plants, maybe plants and shellfish local to the region could be used. Seems like you could potentially find places where the farms would do more good than harm, even ignoring the food production aspect: They claimed that the farms make good habitats for various types of marine life, serve as effective storm breaks, etc. I wonder if they might even be able to improve local oce…

As a funny thought, remember the article a while back pointing out party drugs are detectable in downstream water sources from large populations?

That could make for some interesting secondary food stuff harvesting. :D

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#62

Post by adwn »

thangalin wrote: post #11

We should focus our attention on taking humans out of the food industry altogether. Here's a model I've been thinking about that should make it possible to create a free food society: http://i.stack.imgur.com/KfGtn.png Not just free as in no cost, but free also as in liberty. Imagine not having to work for food. Food weaves a recursive economic penalty into all facets of society. What's especially amazing about 3D ve…

> [...] fusion [...] free food [...]

Fusion is by no means cheap. To quote myself from a different thread:

Even if/when we get commercially viable fusion, there's no reason why it should be significantly cheaper than energy from nuclear fission – you'll still need extremely complicated, high-precision, high-technology machines, generators, cooling towers, buildings, skilled workers, some amount of regulation, and disposal of nuclear waste. Oh, and if your fusion design is a tokamak, it might easily be more expensive than energy from fission reactors.

If you want electrical energy that's some orders of magnitude cheaper, you'll need a break-through in fundamental physics.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#63

Post by bradleyjg »

goda90 wrote: post #60
meric wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, they could if it's to make ethanol!

I wonder if it'd require extra processing to make sure heavy metals aren't left in the ethanol or if the typical production methods already leave that stuff out.

Distillation should have no problem dealing with heavy metals. Other nasty things though are azeotropic with either water or ethanol and would have to be accounted for if you wanted to make drinkable vodka. Contaminants are less of a concern if you are looking to make fuel rather than booze.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#64

Post by bradleyjg »

rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

My biggest concern is that along with the nitrogen and phosphate runoff come pesticides and other less savory compounds that then bio-accumulate in the farmed shellfish.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#65

Post by LeifCarrotson »

logicrook wrote: post #54
reqctomaniac wrote: post #10

We need open source resources on how to build and maintain farms like this. Unfortunately these guys are not sharing yet, at least I couldn't find any detailed information. I'd love to try this myself, but as a complete novice i'd need a lot basic information - like what species to grow, how to get seeds and plant them, etc.

I couldn't agree much. If you look outside of CS and mathematics, where FLOSS principles are widely represented, in most domains it is very hard to access the knowledge. Besides the experts protecting their expertise, there are some fields where they actively try to discourage any such dissemination of knowledge to protect the interest of the trade -medicine, where there is also a question of accountability- or to pr…

Medicine (and many other "closed" subjects) is widely taught in schools - it is not a secret guild.

You can also go to school for agriculture, to learn about the growth of crops and about livestock management. The difference is that this ocean farming is a new endeavor by a small group. It's not like CS or math where independent researchers can download a compiler or pick up a notebook and verify or extend other studies, you need years of work and large amounts of money.

Would there be pull requests for this if they opened it to the public?

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#66

Post by unclebucknasty »

bradleyjg wrote: post #64
rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

My biggest concern is that along with the nitrogen and phosphate runoff come pesticides and other less savory compounds that then bio-accumulate in the farmed shellfish.

My immediate thought. Agricultural runoff isn't on the top of the list of things I want to ingest, even vicariously.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#67

Post by ib84 »

This is great, and I hope it get's opensourced and more widespread. One thing of ecological importance that could be emphasized more, is that the shell of shell-fish represents a stable carbon sink. It's not so much that sea-gras extracts more anorganic carbon than land plants, because that organic carbon is likely going to end up as CO2 one way or another. But shells allow to effectively remove excessive carbon from the global carbon cycle.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#68

Post by reqctomaniac »

AlexC04 wrote: post #42
reqctomaniac wrote: post #10

We need open source resources on how to build and maintain farms like this. Unfortunately these guys are not sharing yet, at least I couldn't find any detailed information. I'd love to try this myself, but as a complete novice i'd need a lot basic information - like what species to grow, how to get seeds and plant them, etc.

> but by open-sourcing our farming model so that anybody with 20 acres and a boat and $30,000 can start his or her own farm. It sounds like they are open sourcing their information. Further, they're offering 2 years consulting and 5 years buying nearly the full crop at triple the market rate. Maybe you could reach out. It sounds like they want the help.

Yes, I also got excited when I read that, but "open sourcing" means providing freely accessible information, not consulting. And they dont have any accessible information that I could see. Also I dont have 30 grand or a boat, I wanted to try this on a much smaller scale, just for my own interest and benefit.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#69

Post by ib84 »

bradleyjg wrote: post #64
rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

My biggest concern is that along with the nitrogen and phosphate runoff come pesticides and other less savory compounds that then bio-accumulate in the farmed shellfish.

yes, unfortunately, that indeed is a concern. It should be examined.
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