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Ubuntu on Windows

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Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#891

Post by telotortium »

cturner wrote: post #803
supertastic wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more surprised that no one seems to recall that they did exactly this back in the day. There was a version of the NT4 kernel that could run Unix programs. "Great, the program selection of Unix with the stability of windows!" people sneered, but still there was a market for it.

But that was a whac-a-mole, probably for getting boxes checked for whatever it is that audit departments did before sarbanes oxley. That they've gone with linux here shows that their focus is mainstream developers. Consider - it their main focus here had been EEE then BSD would have been a far better starting point. The GPL is far more restrictive than the BSD license. The one major area where linux wins over BSD is…

> Consider - it their main focus here had been EEE then BSD would have been a far better starting point. The GPL is far more restrictive than the BSD license.

What Microsoft has created is binary translation for Linux system calls, like Wine but allowing Linux to run on Windows instead. FreeBSD, among many other OSs, has done something similar for a long time, precisely because Linux is the most popular Unix-like OS. In addition, Microsoft doesn't care about the drivers -- everyone still writes drivers for Windows.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#892

Post by cyphar »

badminton1 wrote: post #693
jupiter2 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for mentioning this! Really bothered by all the positive comments, especially coming from savvy HN users. Gave this a long look and my main beef is that I couldn't possibly do anything on a Windows Machine in its' current state. Linux isn't just about running apps - there's a philosophy behind the system. Users first! As long as Microsoft continues to disrespect the rights of users in regard to privacy, dat…

One aspect is the technology, another aspect are the values driving that technology, another aspect is the legal aspect. You are mixing them all and that's how the debate gets stuck into some neckbeard-limbo that nobody cares about. Society made a lot of progress when religion and state got decoupled from each other. There are some things that should be handled separately. What I have to say about this is: Technology…

I'm confused why you use the phrase "GNU/Linux" but not "free software". I've never seen someone use that combination before.

But as to your point, not all free software licenses are copyleft. The MIT and BSD and Apache licenses are all proprietary-friendly licenses.

And as for requiring to extend the GNU/Linux ecosystem, I don't think that's true. It just looks like they've implemented syscall compatibility with Linux (something that FreeBSD has had for donkey's years and SmartOS has been working on for the past few years). Neither of those technologies resulted in more software specifically for GNU/Linux.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#893

Post by cyphar »

badminton1 wrote: post #769
hydromet wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes partycoder, it sure would be interesting to hear what "neckbeard" RMS has to say about this move by Microsoft today, would it not?

I think he has a full fledged beard making him not fit into the neckbeard type. RMS was foresighted enough to make licensing a core part of open source. I have a deep respect for the man. The Achilles heel for open source software remains to be patents. In that regard I think many proprietary players still have the upper hand.

> I think he has a full fledged beard making him not fit into the neckbeard type.

> RMS was foresighted enough to make licensing a core part of open source. I have a deep respect for the man.

He founded the free software movement. The open source movement is based on different values (convenience above ethics) which Stallman doesn't agree with.

> The Achilles heel for open source software remains to be patents. In that regard I think many proprietary players still have the upper hand.

Both the GPLv3 and Apache solve this problem. The issue is that too many people are using permissive licenses where it's not appropriate.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#894

Post by cyphar »

hydromet wrote: post #765
badminton1 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One aspect is the technology, another aspect are the values driving that technology, another aspect is the legal aspect. You are mixing them all and that's how the debate gets stuck into some neckbeard-limbo that nobody cares about. Society made a lot of progress when religion and state got decoupled from each other. There are some things that should be handled separately. What I have to say about this is: Technology…

Yes partycoder, it sure would be interesting to hear what "neckbeard" RMS has to say about this move by Microsoft today, would it not?

> Yes partycoder, it sure would be interesting to hear what "neckbeard" RMS has to say about this move by Microsoft today, would it not?

Ignoring your insults toward RMS, you can always send him an email at rms@gnu.org. He responds within a few days most of the time.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#895

Post by cyphar »

creshal wrote: post #741
akerro wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's huge in a lot of situations. Some things - not a lot, granted, but some, like FreeBSD's C++ stack and compiler - are even upstreamed back to mainstream open source projects by Apple employees. ^ Citation need.

Clang/LLVM?

The joke (I think) being that Apple doesn't upstream a lot of code.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#896

Post by tracker1 »

I'm actually happy to see this... it's similar to the efforts Joyent took in getting their docker solution in place.. and I'd be really surprised if that isn't one of the goals for this effort.

I tend to lately have a Linux server VM on my desktop, and then SSH into it to do linux things... not having to setup a VM is a bonus imho... Being able to run actual docker, better still, as handling the VM's copy of docker images, and making them accessible outside isn't always fun.

In the end, I think it's pretty cool, and scary all at once.. mainly because too many developers take no effort to making their apps work across platforms... not just Windows, but the BSD and Solaris variants.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#897

Post by Paradigma11 »

Grishnakh wrote: post #200
gvb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Embrace is good. 2. Extend can be good if done openly and collaboratively, as opposed to closed and hidden. 3. Extinguish - Here be dragons. I'm hopeful the New Kinder Gentler Microsoft stays on steps 1. and 2. (done collaboratively).

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Microsoft has been trying to extinguish their competition for decades now; what makes you think they're going to be different this time?

Because they changed their position and direction. This was a necessary, rational and defendable choice and not some hollow marketing gag.

The company would be worse off if they do not stick to this direction and start backstabbing. It is bad enough that companies are legal persons, let's not anthropomorphize them even more into irrational evil villains that hold grudges.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#898

Post by ramgorur »

espadrine wrote: post #768
jupiter2 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for mentioning this! Really bothered by all the positive comments, especially coming from savvy HN users. Gave this a long look and my main beef is that I couldn't possibly do anything on a Windows Machine in its' current state. Linux isn't just about running apps - there's a philosophy behind the system. Users first! As long as Microsoft continues to disrespect the rights of users in regard to privacy, dat…

> Linux isn't just about running apps - there's a philosophy behind the system. It isn't just about the philosophy either. Not to me. Linux offers a stellar scheduler, phenomenal file systems such as ext4 and XFS (soon ZFS!), cgroups… the list goes on.

and bash

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#899

Post by ryao »

NateDad wrote: post #259
tkinom wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can windows 10 apt-get install/run most/all the x/gtk base apps apt-get build from source those apps. ? If so, I will consider switch.

No. No GUI applications (currently, and no announced future support... and I wouldn't bank on them doing it).

If they implement dri, alsa and evdev (without subtle implementation bugs), then Windows would be a decent development platform for Linux games and such games could run on both Windows and Linux. If Apple joins the party, it would be write once, run anywhere. :)

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#900

Post by JdeBP »

andoma wrote: post #88
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's something that really interests me. Likewise I want to know how extended attributes and streams are mapped.

Or unlinking an open file. Something you can't do on traditional Windows kernels IIRC.

You recall incorrectly. Windows NT kernels have been able to unlink open files right from the get-go, at the start of the 1990s. They had to be, in order to support the POSIX subsystem.

When files are manipulated through the Win32 subsystem they are (normally) opened in "deny delete" mode (i.e. without passing FILE_SHARE_DELETE to CreateFile and thence to NtCreateFile). But that's Win32 programs and language runtime libraries explicitly setting the sharing mode flags that they like, not an inability of the Windows NT kernel that is below the Win32 subsystem, nor even an inability of the Win32 subsystem itself.

* https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/windows/desktop/aa3...

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