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“This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

bugs.debian.org

21–30 of 105 posts

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#21

Huh. Ran into this behavior yesterday, coincidentally. I also think there's another bug with xscreensaver where it will capture and "hang on" to your keyboard after you've unlocked the machine. Maybe it's time to switch...

> I also think there's another bug with xscreensaver where it will capture and "hang on" to your keyboard after you've unlocked the machine.

You sure you are running the latest version?

That is the origins of this message. That Debian (and perhaps other distros) would fail to push xscreensavers in a timely manner, resulting in JWZ getting emails about issues he had long since fixed.

This seems to stem from a policy that only security issues (resulting in a CVE being published) will be processed, while usability issues are left in place until the next major stable release is rolled out.

I can see two reason for this.

A: that the thinking around stable is heavily server oriented. Thus anything but CVEs being excluded result in reduced risk of production breakages. This even though Debian is a generic distro that can be molded into desktop or server usage depending on what gets installed.

B: that the rigidity of traditional package management do not allow a piecemeal updating process. This because updating a package removes the old package in the process. Thus if you want to bump up the xscreensaver version, and it hard depends on a newer lib somewhere in the dependency chain, you end up with an unresolvable conflict unless you also update everything else that depends on the same lib.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#22
post #20

Here in Argentina it's common to find people that works dealing with customers or in the street that are very rude and kind of sociopaths. For what I have read in threads like this one, software developers that have to deal with many users/developers like Linus Torvalds, Theo de Raadt, and Jamie Zawinski end up suffering the same symptom.

It is also a classic help desk issue.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#23
Frankly, this is a very good example why I inevitably give up on using Debian.

It is not the software writers' fault that your distro can't be arsed to keep its package system up-to-date.

Even the unstable branch is routinely multiple versions behind on software.

The idea of linking end-user software versioning to the operating system version itself was always a dumb idea, but has become even more absurd over time. No other operating system but Linux (and possibly some BSDs) does this to the extent that the distro model does.

I'm not limited to awkward work-around manual install methods just because the version of Notepad++ linked to Windows 8.1 hasn't been updated since it was released. The whole scenario is absurd.

Yes, package repos are nice, but not when it means I'm perpetually multiple versions behind on common software just because a handful of nerds are trying to do the job of Github and Sourceforge combined, instead of just building an easier method of installing and updating third-party software.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#24

I'm more on the BSD-side, so can someone give an explanation on why bug fixes are not being back ported? I understand long term stable, but I thought that was more an API thing.

The Debian policy states that all software in stable stay at the same version, with patches backported from upstream. I'm not sure it really makes sense as a general policy; at least I'm pretty sure there could be exceptions for some packages with little dependancies, such as xscreensaver. Slackware 14.0 which is way older than Jessie and even older than Wheezy, comes with the latest, 5.34 xscreensaver in its update stream.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#25

Huh. Ran into this behavior yesterday, coincidentally. I also think there's another bug with xscreensaver where it will capture and "hang on" to your keyboard after you've unlocked the machine. Maybe it's time to switch...

> I also think there's another bug with xscreensaver where it will capture and "hang on" to your keyboard after you've unlocked the machine. You sure you are running the latest version? That is the origins of this message. That Debian (and perhaps other distros) would fail to push xscreensavers in a timely manner, resulting in JWZ getting emails about issues he had long since fixed. This seems to stem from a policy t…

Oh, maybe I should update to the latest xscreensaver by hand, then. Thanks.

Of course, then I run into your B problem, where there isn't a really good way of installing your own versions that aren't in the repos. I was able to blacklist the kernel from updating itself, somehow, so I really just need to figure out how to do that again.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... to another distro that actually ships up to date software?

Not a chance! Debian is the only sane Linux distro. Xubuntu would by alright if they ever decide to switch to systemd.

Fair enough, I only use insane distros. I quit Debian because I wanted to dev in Ruby and it wouldn't let me. Then I used Archlinux for a while, but having to use rescue mode everytime I did 'pacman -Syu' got a little old so I switched to a sane OS for a while. Seriously, aren't both Ubuntu and CentOS not much saner than Debian?

Anyway, my sane period ended a while ago, it's full on NixOS now, why are people still using OS'es that are not the future?.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#27
post #18

I can't find it on his website at the moment but he has an excellent explanation of why gnome-screensaver is inherently insecure. If I remember correctly it boils down to something like: `nobody can guarantee that gnome-screensaver is secure because it relies on GTK which nobody can prove or guarantee that it's 100% secure because there's too much code to check.`. edit: found it: I am as close to certain as I can be…

But why can he vouch that libX11 is any more secure? The library that runs complex input method code on every key-press, that has had CVEs in it? [0] [1] [0] https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libX11/tree/modules/im... [1] https://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2013-20... Not to mention that I can still write a keylogger that bypasses jwz's xscreensaver. [2] [2] https://github.com/magcius/keylog

I believe this blog post http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/01/why-screen-loc... is relevant to the conversation and the key logger part (but I am out of my league to comment about it).

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#28
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a chance! Debian is the only sane Linux distro. Xubuntu would by alright if they ever decide to switch to systemd.

Fair enough, I only use insane distros. I quit Debian because I wanted to dev in Ruby and it wouldn't let me. Then I used Archlinux for a while, but having to use rescue mode everytime I did 'pacman -Syu' got a little old so I switched to a sane OS for a while. Seriously, aren't both Ubuntu and CentOS not much saner than Debian? Anyway, my sane period ended a while ago, it's full on NixOS now, why are people still us…

Keep in mind that Ubuntu and offshots are based on Debian Unstable, not Stable.

And the problem that the bugreport is about is that Stable would not get bugfix updates, resulting in JWZ getting emails for long fixed bugs.

Thus he put in the "obsolete version" warning to get Stable users to pester Debian maintainers.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#29
Man, it's really weird to see this after just installing Debian after using arch for about a year. And sure enough, that message popped up, I tried to update it and the repos were outdated. Brother..

My worst experience with their repos was with logstash having a bug where it would annoyingly install logstash-web with an auto-start. But..... the package had a typo in its startup script and caused the JVM to restart over and over and over. This was at an HFT shop, so sure enough.. I got a call the next morning that all trading was stopped until it was fixed.

I don't understand how these sorts of things issues happen for so long on such a popular distro...

*arch is nice and all, but holy crap does AUR need some better standards with what's acceptable. After spending an asinine amount of time trying to figure out why every 5th package won't build where devs closing bug reports with, "Did you try $BASICTROUBLESHOOTING".. I'm pretty much done.

Re: “This version of XScreenSaver is very old. Please upgrade”

#30
post #23

Frankly, this is a very good example why I inevitably give up on using Debian. It is not the software writers' fault that your distro can't be arsed to keep its package system up-to-date. Even the unstable branch is routinely multiple versions behind on software. The idea of linking end-user software versioning to the operating system version itself was always a dumb idea, but has become even more absurd over time. N…

Maybe distros like Debian are more stability/security oriented than feature oriented. New version of software often contain new features that it may introduce new bugs.

Debian guarantees that when you install their distro things are going to work and are kind of secure. The tradeoff of having all the software in the distro being checked by people that have tested and checked that everything works well and smooth it's going delay updating the packages.

But the idea of having a distro it's something that offers you that. That someone took the work of packaging and testing, so you can install things and everything works.

I think that if more software would be offered statically compiled with all the libraries (like many apps in OSX), then we would be able to try the latest release of Gimp when it's released, instead of having to waste time trying to compile from source or waiting for being included in the next release of the distro.

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