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Programmers becoming "starving artists"

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31–37 of 37 posts

Re: Programmers becoming "starving artists"

#31

Computer Programming is going to be the last or nearly the last actual job that humans will have. I'm not worried.

Yeah, the analogy breaks down at the point where a computer program solves someone's concrete problem. The most a musical piece will do is make you feel something. People are always going to pay for solutions to concrete problems, because everybody's problem is slightly different, and needs a slightly different solution.

Re: Programmers becoming "starving artists"

#32
post #20

It may be that this comes to pass eventually, but soon? Not a chance. The majority of kids don't even have any access to a programming course until college . The students I see in my intro courses often don't even have a very solid understanding of what a (mathematical) function is, much less have the precision-of-thought skills one needs to successfully program. It's one of the main things we have to teach in CS1. A…

Historically, the kids who'll become really good programmers don't have to be exposed to it before college. They'll already have started programming before they're in high school. If they're really drawn to it, noone will be able to keep them away from it that long.

In my experience it's not a question of exposure, it's a question of the pay being offered. Most programmers that kids know probably don't make very much money. That could be changed if there was more exposure for those who greatly enjoy and profit from the craft.

Re: Programmers becoming "starving artists"

#33

Among the many erroneous assumptions this makes is that the demand for software is not elastic or limited by the cost of development. In reality what would happen is that if code becomes cheaper companies will get more than they could before to automate increasingly larger aspects of their infrastructure, improve the quality of their current software, and make custom software more accesible to small businesses. As th…

> ... custom software is more than 90% of all software out there. I've read this in several variations for years. But I've never seen a reference. Is this just a myth or can anyone point to real research which provides evidence for the claim?

Without getting into statistically relevant data, of the hundreds of programmers I've met in my lifetime, at most a dozen worked on proprietary packaged software (game devs, more precisely). The rest did web sites, consultancy, customizations, everything that meant going to a customer and creating or changing something that was there to better fit a set of requirements.

Re: Programmers becoming "starving artists"

#34
post #7

I work with open source technology in my job all the time, and I don't think there's any danger of someone freely implementing the custom systems we need to support our clients' needs. Just because everyone knows how a wrench works doesn't mean my mechanic is fixing my car for free.

Bits are trivially copyable; alternators not so much.

The point is that the arrangement of bits might not be appropriate to copy; people have been writing poetry for millennia but when you need to write copy of a webpage or lay out a spreadsheet you have to write out new 'bits', you can't just tear out a page of Hamlet and hope that it does the job.

Re: Programmers becoming "starving artists"

#35
post #4

If programmers are in short supply become one and make tons of money. If they are over-supplied become an entrepreneur, hire lots of cheap programmers and change the world. Think positively.

Only thing is cheap programmers generally -- not exclusively -- but generally suck.

If cheap programmers suck, good programmers should be expensive.

In this situation be a good programmer - it's not hard, just requires diligence and methodical learning of new stuff.

Re: Programmers becoming "starving artists"

#36
post #24

Nonsense. Programmers aren't artists, they're engineers. The difference is progress. Whereas art hasn't come a long way since Rembrandt and Mozart, engineering has. Open Source is just the stuff that's easy and has already been done. Progress won't happen if everyone has to develop it over and over again or spend millions on licenses for trivial products. (Note: Article is from 2003, bottom of IT crisis)

  Whereas art hasn't come a long way since Rembrandt and Mozart, engineering has.

Hahahahaha... Sorry, but that is just false. It's the same oversimplification an (ignorant) artist would make : "Technology surely has not come a long way since books and horse buggies - we can just read books without books and ride horse buggies without horses."

I'm sure it was just a lapse of attention on your part, though.

Re: Programmers becoming "starving artists"

#37
post #32
post #20

It may be that this comes to pass eventually, but soon? Not a chance. The majority of kids don't even have any access to a programming course until college . The students I see in my intro courses often don't even have a very solid understanding of what a (mathematical) function is, much less have the precision-of-thought skills one needs to successfully program. It's one of the main things we have to teach in CS1. A…

Historically, the kids who'll become really good programmers don't have to be exposed to it before college. They'll already have started programming before they're in high school. If they're really drawn to it, noone will be able to keep them away from it that long. In my experience it's not a question of exposure, it's a question of the pay being offered. Most programmers that kids know probably don't make very much…

I thought about that; the issue is not that one must have a college course to get started on programming, or that a course in secondary or primary school is the only pre-college exposure people could have. It's that of all students in college, a very small percentage of them have any exposure to programming. And I think we can safely assume that the percentage would be an order of magnitude lower among students that never make it to college (which still describes a majority of people---attending college for even a day puts you in a minority).

By contrast, even the most NCLB-starved schools tend to have some art and music programs, even if they're cut way back, and virtually everyone has some (perhaps inadequate) PE classes and access to pickup games of basketball or stickball or whatever. There's really no imminent chance of the number of people who have done "some" programming coming within two orders of magnitude of the number of people who have done "some" art or played "some" sports.

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