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Ubuntu on Windows

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Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here." The big difference is that Apple actually doesn't f k their users in the ass. People always complain how Apple products are so expensive etc. but you know that's how they make money and they actually invest in to the privacy and security of their users (good example: the FBI case) I will happily keep on paying high price for the Apple…

Apple is pretty user-hostile. Moreso than MS in my estimation. Try changing the battery in your iphone, or getting music on it without using itunes.

Sure. But aren't we past changing batteries? They're less an issue than changing screens these days. And screens have never been easily replaceable. Its just us old folks who expect the battery to come out.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#832
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a key point that is being missed here is most of the people excited about this probably run OSX, not Linux. OSX has long been the "'Linux' for people who don't really want to run Linux" (not really meant as an insult, I'm typing this from OSX right now). Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. FWIW, this excites me because it potentially means I can go from two machine…

> Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. I respectfully disagree. The OSX kernel XNU is open source, as are a ton of its components. That's huge in a lot of situations. Some things - not a lot, granted, but some, like FreeBSD's C++ stack and compiler - are even upstreamed back to mainstream open source projects by Apple employees.

While not open source, I've seen parts of the windows source (never really had the time to read it in full detail) in my work, most probably coming from the MS vs EC situation some years back[0]. Yes, there are still hidden parts (docs mostly, I recall my friends doing memory forensics research had a "fun" time to get information on IP connection structures for example), but it's not as secretive as many people think it is.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp_v_Commission#Si...

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#833
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a key point that is being missed here is most of the people excited about this probably run OSX, not Linux. OSX has long been the "'Linux' for people who don't really want to run Linux" (not really meant as an insult, I'm typing this from OSX right now). Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. FWIW, this excites me because it potentially means I can go from two machine…

Apple has contributed to key open source projects such as LLVM and WebKit. They have also open sourced Swift. They have identified the core of their business and they feel comfortable there. They get a 30% royalty for each App Store transaction, they make large profits selling iPhones and Macs. They monetize their software indirectly as a part of a larger end-to-end solution. Microsoft during their monopolic era was…

Apple is a hardware company while Microsoft is a software company.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#835
post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for mentioning this! Really bothered by all the positive comments, especially coming from savvy HN users. Gave this a long look and my main beef is that I couldn't possibly do anything on a Windows Machine in its' current state. Linux isn't just about running apps - there's a philosophy behind the system. Users first! As long as Microsoft continues to disrespect the rights of users in regard to privacy, dat…

People are different and have different constraints and optimization parameters. I'm not disagreeing with you as much as pointing out that not all people hold the same things as important as you do. In my context as a software engineer or as a private individual I didn't find your argument convincing from the point of view that it would expose any specific problems that are of my concern. If I was responsible for con…

It saddens me to hear you say this as a developer, a builder, an engineer of our technological future and infrastructure.

It falls on Developers - moreso than any other group - to be aware of the dangers the work they perform produces and for whom their work benefits. They must all be aware of the abuses of our basic rights and human dignity modern Private Enterprise engage in.

When these same Enterprises pull developers from a system (or systems) that value our individual rights to one that tramples all over them... it angers me. It begins to limit the Philosophically, user-empowering, alternatives we have. When developers rejoice over the actions of an abusive Enterprise, it disheartens me. It feels like the bigger picture is somehow being missed.

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: 'Those who give up their freedoms for temporary ease of use deserve neither and will lose both.'

I do not mean this to sound harsh. You can both work within the current technological framework (as we all do) and, at the same time, rail against a future that runs counter to our core beliefs. It's ok to do both. It's ok to work within a Microsoft-produced framework and at the same time let them know that some of what they're doing is counter to your belief system as a private, law-abiding individual.

What we must not do is defend the Police State we're currently building. It runs counter to everything we hold dear as a democratic and free society. Counter to the best kind of future we can envision for ourselves and future generations.

The chasm between the 'haves'' and the 'have-nots'* is only getting wider. The very concept of a fair society where all men are created equal diminishes. Enterprise OSes produced by Microsoft, for example, have privacy-enabled features the common man does not have access to. The common man - you and I - are now constant targets whereas Corporations, those in Government, those in law enforcement and many others accustomed to living above the law continue live under a different set of rules. This is the emerging new standard.

China will soon get a special build of Windows 10 without telemetry, without "phoning home". I am certain that this special build will contain the same kind of malware and abusive spyware that benefits the Chinese Government over it's own citizens. So... we, possibly have, an American software company building and deploying tools for repressive regimes. Yet we have become so complacent, there isn't even a discussion about it. That's how bad things have gotten.

We shouldn't pretend that this philosophical disconnect is not the biggest change in development. It is essentially the only real difference between Operating Systems/Working Frameworks. As good people... I'm saying that we should never, ever defend it, accept it and be complacent about it.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#836
post #820

I'm not being deliberately obtuse: I don't really understand how this helps anyone particularly much. (OK, I assume there's a small number of developers who develop, or at least debug, for both systems and prefer windows as a development environment, but I assume that number is small, at least on Microsoft's scale). If you're developing to deploy on Linux but are more of a Windows dev, this helps you, but that doesn'…

One of the things that excited me most about this is the ability to ssh. I have a feeling that is going to be incredibly useful instead of having to use PuTTY or some other client.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#837
post #233

Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…

> typical Microsoft strategy

> utilized a lot 25 years ago.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not gonna hold onto that grudge forever without good reason. The world's changed a lot since gif's of Calvin pissing on bill gates were all the rage.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for mentioning this! Really bothered by all the positive comments, especially coming from savvy HN users. Gave this a long look and my main beef is that I couldn't possibly do anything on a Windows Machine in its' current state. Linux isn't just about running apps - there's a philosophy behind the system. Users first! As long as Microsoft continues to disrespect the rights of users in regard to privacy, dat…

This is so true I'm loathe to add to it. I dual boot my laptop b/w Windows and Linux because the WiFi network at my school has issues with Linux...so I'm forced to use Windows, also for games, but it's such a pain. Today it updated forcefully while I was trying to study; I tried to postpone the update but the option was grayed out. The Windows philosophy through and through is to treat users as ignorant and incompete…

Next time, go to a Run box and type services.msc, there you can turn off the Windows Update service, the Trusted Installer service, etc. You've got to be willing to pop the hood: admittedly MS tends to hide the hood release lever.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#839
post #233

Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…

> 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) Remember OS/2 2.x? It could run Windows 3.x binaries, including GUI programs. The result was that noone wrote programs for OS/2. Windows programs would run both on Windows and on OS/2, so why write another one for OS/2? Why should anyone port Linux programs to Windows now? Just write for Linux and…

Exactly. There are tons of ports of Linux software to Windows but if this becomes successful and popular there is no reason to ever maintain a Windows port.

But perhaps at this point it's important for Windows to stay relevant in an open source world.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is pretty user-hostile. Moreso than MS in my estimation. Try changing the battery in your iphone, or getting music on it without using itunes.

Sure. But aren't we past changing batteries? They're less an issue than changing screens these days. And screens have never been easily replaceable. Its just us old folks who expect the battery to come out.

Those of us that aren't drinking the apple kool aid aren't past changing batteries. And I'm old. Perhaps Apple is just old-person-hostile, which amounts to about the same thing for me.
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