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How I Made a Cheap PCB

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Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#31

Post by daniel-cussen »

swsieber wrote: post #30
daniel-cussen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, you aren't, but I might. And others too: witness the popularity of otherwise ineconomical farmer's markets, for instance. It supports local industry, which "keeps money in the family" to a large extent (and protects from predatory pricing down the road), and connects with the local industrial community more. You never know when they might know the person that can help you out with whatever glitch. Except when the…

I would argue that part of the farmer's market is the experience of the setting and the fact that the food is (usually) fresh - much more than anywhere else. Edit: My point is that I go to farmer's market for the experience, not to support the local farmers. It just so happens that the locals are the best are providing that experience. I do have to admit though that wanting to support the local farmers may have boots…

Would the experience be the same if the people weren't there?

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#32

Post by agumonkey »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #2

Not really much of an article is it, could be summarised as 'How I ordered a cheap PCB by choosing one of the many companies offering to build cheap PCBs'. I was expecting a little more DIY from the title.

next: how I printed PCBs by printing P, C, B and s.

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#33

Post by pyb »

oddeyed wrote: post #21

Anyone considering doing similar in the UK, try ragworm [1]. Low cost (and cool orange) PCBs. They are trying to position themselves as the community PCB provider who you should go to for low-volume jobs e.g. kickstarter prototypes, hobbyist projects, and presumably are hoping that those early prototypes grow into big orders for them. Turnaround is 10 working days because they presumably combine lots of people's orde…

If you need a cheap PCB prototype more quickly (2 days), the PCB Train service is always a good source.

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#34

Post by cillian64 »

bhickey wrote: post #18
david-given wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know any places that do assembly as well? My soldering skills are approximately good enough to do 0.1 inch pitch pins about 90% of the time, which isn't really good enough for surface-mount, and most modern microprocessors don't come in anything else.

How do you feel about using a toaster oven? I've had some success using a DIY reflow oven and pick-n-place by hand. Haven't tried 0201's, but 0402 resistors and 5mm QFN packages go pretty well. Just don't use lead free solder.

I think the hate for lead-free solder is either a bit much, or outdated. I've used nothing but lead-free for both hand-soldered PTH and toaster-oven-reflowed SMT and get reliably excellent results. This is with cheap solder, dodgy HASL PCBs and a consumer toaster oven.

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#35

Post by ZenoArrow »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #20
ZenoArrow wrote: post #2

Not really much of an article is it, could be summarised as 'How I ordered a cheap PCB by choosing one of the many companies offering to build cheap PCBs'. I was expecting a little more DIY from the title.

Well, it is listed under "Ramblings". I don't think it was written as an article, it's just a blog post that could help out someone looking to do the similar.

> "Well, it is listed under "Ramblings""

My issue was with the word 'made'. If I see a title for 'I made x' I expect a little more than 'I ordered x'. I'm not going to make an article about 'How I made an iPad' if I just ordered one from Amazon.

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#36

Post by cillian64 »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #17
david-given wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know any places that do assembly as well? My soldering skills are approximately good enough to do 0.1 inch pitch pins about 90% of the time, which isn't really good enough for surface-mount, and most modern microprocessors don't come in anything else.

You don't need to have great soldering skills for surface mount components. The easiest way to solder surface mount is the "solder stencil + solder paste" method (for want of a better term). You create a solder stencil to match the pin layout, place it over the PCB pads, apply solder paste, place the component on top then melt the solder (if you'd be doing multiple batches it's easy enough to modify a toaster oven to…

What do you cut your stencils from? I've spent a lot of time mucking about with various plastics and never gotten particularly good results - 0.5mm pitch pads tend to start melting together into a mess. The good stuff is meant to be Mylar, AKA PET. I've bought plastic advertised as Mylar which has not been particularly good, and I suspect it may actually be PE rather than PET, as apparently the two are often confused.

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#38

Post by jwr »

Several points:

* KiCAD has become a great tool for designing boards, even fairly complex ones. And it's completely free, both in terms of freedom and money. Don't get locked into EAGLE, which is becoming increasingly obsolete (development is glacially slow) and will suddenly become quite expensive to use once you want a certain board size or a number of layers.

* There are multiple PCB services in China, itead.cc, seeedstudio (both use the same PCB factory), pcbway.com and more. All offer great prices.

* For small boards, OSHpark.com is actually cheaper. Also, their boards come with ENIG finish by default, which you really want for SMD work.

* The companion OSHstencils.com is a fantastic resource: every board I order gets a stencil made.

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#39

Post by jwr »

cillian64 wrote: post #36
ZenoArrow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to have great soldering skills for surface mount components. The easiest way to solder surface mount is the "solder stencil + solder paste" method (for want of a better term). You create a solder stencil to match the pin layout, place it over the PCB pads, apply solder paste, place the component on top then melt the solder (if you'd be doing multiple batches it's easy enough to modify a toaster oven to…

What do you cut your stencils from? I've spent a lot of time mucking about with various plastics and never gotten particularly good results - 0.5mm pitch pads tend to start melting together into a mess. The good stuff is meant to be Mylar, AKA PET. I've bought plastic advertised as Mylar which has not been particularly good, and I suspect it may actually be PE rather than PET, as apparently the two are often confused…

Just order them from OSHstencils. They aren't expensive.

Re: How I Made a Cheap PCB

#40

Post by VLM »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #7
madengr wrote: post #3

Nice, instead of supporting the PCB business 5 miles away, send it to China. The copper not on your PCB is probably floating down some Chinese river, hence "Dirty PCB".

The PCB business 5 miles away has US labor and associated costs. Compare the Chinese board to Advanced Circuits in the US - http://www.4pcb.com/ - you can't get anything without spending over $100.

4pcb is $33 each min 4 total $132 for 60 sq inches per board times 4 = 240 sq inches or 1548 sq cm for $132

dirtypcbs is $14 for qty 10 of 25 sq cm boards or 250 sq cm total. So 1500 sq cm of boards from dirtypcbs would cost about $14 times 6 or $84.

Note that ethically, outsourcing to China is the modern version of handing syphillis blankets to indians. "Well, they're warm blankets, and they did ask for it, and anything is morally acceptable if the victim is tricked into accepting it, if you're really screwed up ethically". It only costs $50 more not to participate in something as ethically distasteful as Chinese manufacturing and you get the product in a day not a week without trashing the environment and while treating human beings like humans, even if they are not white.

Also, if you live on the west coast, you and your kids are breathing the airborne pollution from those Chinese plants for the rest of us.

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