TL;DR if you don't support the Linux API/ABI you are out of business. The reality is software defined everything and it's based on Linux.
Ubuntu on Windows
401–410 of 933 posts
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#402Is this still going to be using the absolutely dreadfull conhost? Because that's the biggest shortcoming windows currently has with its interactive command line tools, cmd.exe and powershell are both usable, not great (okay, pretty bad honestly, but usable) when you don't consider the shitty terminal they force you into using.
I agree conhost is terrible - but they have finally made some improvements in Windows 10 [1]:
- Drag-to-resize
- Automatic text reflowing on resize
- Ctrl + X/C/V support for cut/copy/paste
- Selection that does line-wrapping
- Transparency
- A full-screen mode
[1]: http://futurice.com/blog/a-saner-windows-command-line-part-1Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#403Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…
Microsoft is not the same company it was 25 years ago, much less 3 years ago. Microsoft cares about Azure now, and Azure requires GNU/Linux. It just makes sense for Microsoft to do this, and I for one am pretty excited about it.
Well... back in the day Microsoft also was the company everyone was rooting for that was standing to the evil IBM.
Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. I'm (mostly) a Windows user, and the one reason I'm constantly thinking of moving to OSX as my primary OS is the amount of command-line tooling that is available in the system. Everything new is always there first. I've started feeling that I was holding back by staying on Windows, even if using Mingw daily. This might be the thing that saves Windows as a dev machine for me. I'm a heavy cmd/powershell user b…
Me too - but why not a Linux VM or a VPS? Its mostly for textual usage, no? (My own answer is that cheap VPSes are 150ms away from me, and with Virtualbox I had a few problems, always related to Windows file permissions yada yada yada...)
150ms sucks when you're working with multi GB files and packages. Also network security is not ideal.
Nothing beats running and developing on localhost.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#405microsoft is leveraging FOSS Linux to get Mac users. I think it's a real smart move. The author points to using grep and Xargs and some other tools to quickly update a package. That's the key here. These bash/Linux utilities are productivy boosters for all the Linux and Mac/bsd people out there. I can't imagine living without them and they're necessary for any system I develop on (which is currently a Mac).
Its actually kind of interesting that we dont have a literal "standard base" of tools that any OS should supply. (unless I am missing something) But it would make sense that certain things should be doable on literally any computer. grep, find, vi, edit, etc... etc... I cant come up with a complete list - but it would be great to start that direction.
I would argue that gnu coreutils is this base. Available on al *Nix OS, including Mac.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's be honest here. Does this change make some developers actually even consider to change their OS X/Linux Desktops to Windows? Yeah it is really cool thing that we can finally use windows cmd like the terminal on unix systems however: - What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software? - What about lack of all the UNIX OS features? - What about all those billions and billions of Windows malware, viruses, adware…
While I prefer to develop today on OS X...your post is nothing but FUD. > What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software? Windows prolly has more GUI applications than both those OSes combined. That's not necessarily a good thing but it's not bad either. It just means there is a Win substitute for everything. > What about lack of all the UNIX OS features? Same answer as above. > What about all those billions and…
Well said my friend! Upvote
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#407It's time that people stopped using the term 'Windows' for this operating system. The Free Software Foundation created the bulk of the userspace, under terms that allow anyone to share, modify and fork the programs, and then Microsoft came along with the one last missing piece of the puzzle - the kernel, and completed the full operating system, which, to be frank, users find completely unusable and worthless without…
What a stupid joke.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yea, I think they are going after developers who use OS X because it is UNIXy. Smart move given how en vogue Apple laptops have become for developers these days.
Let's be honest here. Does this change make some developers actually even consider to change their OS X/Linux Desktops to Windows? Yeah it is really cool thing that we can finally use windows cmd like the terminal on unix systems however: - What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software? - What about lack of all the UNIX OS features? - What about all those billions and billions of Windows malware, viruses, adware…
If I was still stuck using an OS X box, I would definitely switch. If I was using Linux, I wouldn't. I've been forced into developing using Windows for the last few years, and for my use case (SSH to remote server to develop there), it's not that bad. There are some annoyances, but from a usage perspective, Windows 10 is actually really nice. Getting native terminal and SSH[1] support actually handles a bug chunk of my annoyances.
> - What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software?
What about the lack of windows software on those platforms? It goes both ways.
> - What about lack of all the UNIX OS features?
Which features? What about the Windows OS features you do't get on a UNIX OS? Again, it goes both ways.
> - What about all those billions and billions of Windows malware, viruses, adware etc.
There are plenty of windows Viruses and malware, but I will say the most problematic security problems I've had have all been on Linux boxes. I would still count Windows as more problematic overall due to the quantity, but I believe the focus on security from Microsoft in the recent years has paid off, and it's nowhere bad as it used to be. Also, to some degree, the prevalence of malware and viruses are because of the popularity, and the popularity comes with it's own advantages (more supported software). It's a trade-off using a platform where some software you like may not be available (e.g. games).
> - What about the fact that OS X and Linux have always been at least decent from developers point of view but Windows has always had problems and then things like Vista and Win8 happen.
Am I supposed to know what this means? People have been using Windows as a development platform for a long time. Those that want to use Visual Studio still do. Windows Vista was crap, but I didn't find Windows 8 bad at all. Around Windows 7 is when it started actually being viable for me to run, and I think it's gotten consistently better over time. The biggest problem I know of that people had with Windows 8 is the start menu change, which to be honest is a really small thing, people just didn't like it and it was front and center.
- What about the advertisements served to you in the login screen?
I haven't seen any.
> - What about all the future shit MS will throw at you?
I'm not sure how this puts Windows in any different light than OS X.
> - Other stuff can't remember now
Seriously?
> - What about all the spying and restrictions that Microsoft has integrated into the Windows? (e.g. cannot block Microsoft spy server in the hosts-file, forced updates etc.)
This is valid, and would be my number one reason for not running Windows at this point if other considerations didn't outweigh it for me.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm really hoping this allows me to compile LibreOffice on Windows. Is this not helpful? https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnWi... LibreOffice has official Windows builds, so I would expect that they can already build the software on Windows.
It means I need to install Visual Studio. Right now I'm only developing on Mac OS X and Linux. On top of this, every time Microsoft updates Visual Studio, things like firebird tend to break :( I'd rather use a toolchain I know better. In fact, I'd love to use clang on Windows.
The latest Visual Studios support clang.
Re: Ubuntu on Windows
#410Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…
HN had a huge influx of developers who predominately (or only) work on the Microsoft platform, and it has been readily apparent in the stories that rise to the top, and the dominant reactions (e.g. cynical takes are quickly transparent. Exaggerated "this changes everything!" comments rise to the top). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does heavily slant the coverage and slant of the conversation.
And as you said, there is nothing new in this. The whole "hell freezes over" thing gets a bit old because Microsoft has done this same routine countless times before. When they are the underdog, seeing a fleeing userbase, etc, they pragmatically veer towards open and integrated. When they aren't, they close off and exploit. (see Microsoft's arrogance and hubris as they exalted in their success with the Xbox 360 -- early initiatives like XNA, their unloved community gaming thing...abandoned and left to die -- and now that they're losing with the Xbox One, once again that wonderfully open and accommodating company returns again. People pretend it's new.
Another example I would give is MSN Messenger -- Microsoft did a loud, public campaign, including taking out ads in newspapers, pushing an open messaging platform, interoperations, etc. Microsoft had just started to get into the messenger game, so of course they didn't want to be kept out via the network effect.
Then, of course, MSN gained users (being pushed on users, automatically configured, tends to do that). Microsoft made a complete 180 in approach. Soon they incorporated an expensive licensing program that third party apps had to use to interoperate with MSN Messenger, endlessly doing technical fixes to block third party access.
What happened to that gregarious, open and cooperative Microsoft that was taking out ads to implore AOL for blocking access? The situation changed, and suddenly it wasn't in their interest anymore.