Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 129 posts

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#71

Post by altern8tif »

joelrunyon wrote: post #63
incepted wrote: post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

I think you're reading this completely wrong. The FBI asked for access, Apple said no (because they knew the case was about precedent rather than capabilities). Apple knows the older phones had vulnerabilities (see this faux-apple computer - https://youtu.be/zsjZ2r9Ygzw?t=15m50s commercial). This is the follow-up from Apple saying "oh, you needed our help to crack it huh? How did you suddenly find a way to do it on y…

The VEP seems to be policy rather than legislation. Meaning that there is no legal obligation for the US Government to abide by it.

If anything, the question is whether the US Government is morally obliged to reveal the vulnerability, given that the risk of not doing so is much higher than the value the government gets from exploiting it as a tool against terrorism. That, I believe, is the EFF's strategy – getting public support and appealing to the government's moral obligation to protect its people.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#72

Post by MatthewWilkes »

ccarter84 wrote: post #15

To best of my knowledge, there's no law saying the Government has to disclose squat to Apple. Given the public bickering/brinksmenship going on these past couple weeks, I doubt they'll be inclined to do so, and they're probably also bound by NDA's from Cellebrite or whoever created the hack (if the Feds even know how they did it) There's some irony in here somewhere...

No law, but it is generally US government policy: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/03/fbi-breaks-iphone-and-...

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#73

Post by scotty79 »

incepted wrote: post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

> and claim that it's already fixed in the next version of the OS

And look like a lying fool when details eventually come out and reveal that it's a hardware security flaw, not something that can be patched by OS.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#74

Post by studentrob »

rtpg wrote: post #46
belorn wrote: post #45

Is it legally acceptable that FBI knows about a criminal activity and do not act to stop it? A security vulnerability like this will sooner or later be used by criminals, and the FBI are in the authoritative position to prevent it. Could future victims sue the government for allowing the crime to occur? There have been many lawsuits where an ISP has been found guilty for knowingly host a copyright infringer on their…

That's a strange standard to hold the FBI up to. Should police, upon seeing an unlocked car, promptly find the owner and inform them? Of course that's a nice thing to do as people, but it's not really a legal obligation.

It's more like, if the police identify an exploitable weakness in a bank vault, they tell the bank. Businesses and the FBI usually work together to increase the safety of the public. In this case, there is disagreement about how to keep the public the most safe.

The FBI does not understand that no government will ever be able to force all encrypted software to do key escrow with them. That misunderstanding is costing a heap of tax payer dollars and risking public safety.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#75

Post by studentrob »

drjesusphd wrote: post #48

Why are we believing anything the FBI says on the matter?

Because it's possible that they actually do think this is the right way to keep the public safe, and it is possible that domestic law enforcement's understanding of tech is a lot worse than we imagine.

The NSA and the FBI are very different in their understanding of tech. Former NSA director Hayden already said he thinks the FBI's plan is no good. He also said he understands why Comey is pursuing this path. He did not say Comey is lying.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#77

Post by coldcode »

zeofig wrote: post #64
incepted wrote: post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

>Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Apple's entire security claims. >it's pretty obvious that Apple has been outsmarted by a government agency. I disagree with this assessment. It's not very surprising that the FBI was able to hack into a particular iPhone by focusing…

An interesting twist would be for Apple to encourage someone to sue Apple for having a hackable phone and then having Apple supply a legal request to require the FBI to disclose the hack in order to "defend" the lawsuit. Not sure this would work but you need a legal reason to force disclosure.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#78

Post by kefka »

incepted wrote: post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

Oh, you mean the password their agents set, AFTER the city unlocked the iPhone using the standard administration interface? The phone was a City Phone, was managed by the City, and had all the standard controls of a Managed iPhone.

Well, ask the agent what they set and/or read their logs. This isn't rocket surgery.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#79

Post by drjesusphd »

studentrob wrote: post #75
drjesusphd wrote: post #48

Why are we believing anything the FBI says on the matter?

Because it's possible that they actually do think this is the right way to keep the public safe, and it is possible that domestic law enforcement's understanding of tech is a lot worse than we imagine. The NSA and the FBI are very different in their understanding of tech. Former NSA director Hayden already said he thinks the FBI's plan is no good. He also said he understands why Comey is pursuing this path. He did no…

I don't care what Hayden says.

They lied about the motivation for the case, and they lied about a software update from Apple being the only means of recovering the data.

Post reply on HN