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Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

latimes.com

61–70 of 129 posts

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#61
Isn't this how it was done:

> Apple already knows, and you can be sure the engineers already knew the mechanism that can be exploited. They hired an Israel firm to remove the nand flash, clone it, and brute force the pin code by trying each combination until valid data was readable from the nand flash (combined with the hardware encryption key located on a second chip). It's not particularly difficult with the right tools and engineers.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4cj2pd/apple_wan...

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#62
post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

Was there ever a proof that FBI actually hacked the phone? There could be lots of not-exactly-exploits that could be applied to this situation and give the solution. For all we know, the company they hired said: "you don't really lose anything by checking 1236 and 1478 first, so why not just do that?" and the first one worked.

Anything about successful / unsuccessful / advanced / trivial solution is just speculation at this point as far as I know. The only thing that FBI said is that they got the data they wanted - and that could be done in thousands of ways. And it doesn't even have to be something that can be prevented or fixed by Apple (what if they found a CCTV recording of the owner tapping the code in?)

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#63
post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

I think you're reading this completely wrong.

The FBI asked for access, Apple said no (because they knew the case was about precedent rather than capabilities). Apple knows the older phones had vulnerabilities (see this faux-apple computer - https://youtu.be/zsjZ2r9Ygzw?t=15m50s commercial).

This is the follow-up from Apple saying "oh, you needed our help to crack it huh? How did you suddenly find a way to do it on your own without us as soon as you realized public perception wasn't proceeding as you hoped?

EFF seems to think that the FBI is legally required to disclose the method (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/03/fbi-breaks-iphone-and-...) due to their VEP process.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#64
post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

>Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Apple's entire security claims.

>it's pretty obvious that Apple has been outsmarted by a government agency.

I disagree with this assessment. It's not very surprising that the FBI was able to hack into a particular iPhone by focusing all available resources on the task. Given their previous duplicity, I would not even believe the claim without real evidence. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if they'd already hacked into it weeks ago. After all, their objective here was never to hack into the phone, but to establish a legal precedent that would force companies like Apple to comply with their future wishes. Apple has well and truly won, and the FBI is at this point trying (and succeeding, sadly) to save face.

I would speculate that Apple are asking them about it publicly because they know that the FBI will not comply with such a demand, thus making the FBI look bad, since it is now (purportedly) putting the security of millions of consumer devices at stake. They may also suspect that the FBI has not legitimately hacked into the phone, which remains a possibility. Or, as is more likely, that the FBI's method required large resources and could not be applied to many iphones at once, for instance.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#65

Isn't this how it was done: > Apple already knows, and you can be sure the engineers already knew the mechanism that can be exploited. They hired an Israel firm to remove the nand flash, clone it, and brute force the pin code by trying each combination until valid data was readable from the nand flash (combined with the hardware encryption key located on a second chip). It's not particularly difficult with the right…

It's speculation. Maybe it was, maybe not. Random reddit comment from a person unrelated to FBI is unlikely to know. Also the "combined with the hardware encryption key located on a second chip" is handwaving away a lot of complexity. That's actually the only hard part in this scenario.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#66

Isn't this how it was done: > Apple already knows, and you can be sure the engineers already knew the mechanism that can be exploited. They hired an Israel firm to remove the nand flash, clone it, and brute force the pin code by trying each combination until valid data was readable from the nand flash (combined with the hardware encryption key located on a second chip). It's not particularly difficult with the right…

[deleted]

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#67

Doesn't this create a kind of precident for future requests to unlock iPhones on a newer OS? If the FBI/US Gov go to court saying they require Apples assistance - can't Apple turn around and basically say "this is what you said last time - and you worked it out - so we are sure you'll work it out again without our help"?

> for future requests to unlock iPhones on a newer OS

It won't work on newer phones. The whole discussion is possible right now mainly because it's an iPhone 5c without a secure enclave. With (I believe) 6 and up the protection checking lives inside of an equivalent of PC's TPM. You can tell it "here's data and key, decode it" or "validate these bytes", but not "give me the internal key" - it doesn't support this on hardware level. (apologies to anyone annoyed at the simplification)

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#68
post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

Doesn't the federal government have a policy strongly encouraging reporting vulnerabilities discovered in computer systema?

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#69
post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

>And now, Apple is in panic mode, slowly realizing that they went from being the hero of privacy in the modern age to the company that wasn't able to secure its phone from the FBI. From the FBI. Of all things.

Some applications that I cracked, yghm illegally, had TOS or EULA with something like 'you're not allowed to RE our app" or "if you find a vulnerability you must let us know about it in the first order". Doesn't Apple have something like that for their software? That would make it easier for them to legally force FBI to reveal the method. If, FBI, does not lie, which can be the case, they got data from different source and iOS is still safe.

Re: Apple wants the FBI to reveal how it hacked the San Bernardino killer's iPhone

#70
post #9

I really find this whole thing hilarious. First, it's Apple sticking it to the FBI by making a stand for privacy and receiving public accolades doing so as a champion of privacy. The FBI is the bad guy trying to invade our privacy. Now, it's the FBI sending a giant "screw you" to Apple by not only letting them know they were able to hack into the phone without Apple's help but at the same time, making a mockery of Ap…

You think Apple should have lied to the public?

Why would they do it? Right?
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