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Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

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Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#51
post #7

Are physics engines not yet accurate enough to enable "virtual" pre-training / full training of the networks, lighting conditions, etc? If they are, exclusively using physical robots seems somewhat inefficient.

There are things you can't simulate (yet). In my experience it's beneficial to run real live testing to gather data about individual parts themselves. For example, I had a robot's navigation fail when it encountered a certain type of water container (one gallon type in a given color found in US supermarkets). Like kissing, you can't replace the real thing.

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping to use a robotic arm for a project I'm working on, and wondering if you guys could answer a question about motors. In my very limited research it looked like one of the factors that make the industrial (kuka, etc) robots so expensive was that they use backlash-free motors. What does that even mean? I also saw a couple startups aimed at sub-$5k robots (like carbon.ai). Are they solving this problem in som…

Backlash free motors are motors where the output shaft begins moving as soon as the motor starts moving. In particular, when the motor reverses direction there is no "slack" to pick up before the output shaft starts to move. The slack is called backlash when talking about gears and motors and what have you. It's important for robots to not have backlash, because as movements are repeated, each bit of backlash adds up…

Wouldn't that only be a problem with open loop control though ? If you have an encoder and use feedback would backlash still be an issue ?

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#53
post #32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> true AI What does this even mean?

You can define general artificial intelligence in many ways. This is probably not comprehensive, but "an artificially constructed agent that is capable of solving a wide variety of tasks in a wide variety of different environments, doing this to successfully achieve some stated goal" should cover it. Add a clause for mostly being at least as capable of doing this as an average human, if you want to be sure. At the mo…

I think a big part of "true AI" is the ability to learn knew things.

AlphaGo, for example, can only play Go. It's never going to learn to play Poker, Scrabble, or Doom, without being completely reprogrammed.

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#54
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backlash free motors are motors where the output shaft begins moving as soon as the motor starts moving. In particular, when the motor reverses direction there is no "slack" to pick up before the output shaft starts to move. The slack is called backlash when talking about gears and motors and what have you. It's important for robots to not have backlash, because as movements are repeated, each bit of backlash adds up…

Wouldn't that only be a problem with open loop control though ? If you have an encoder and use feedback would backlash still be an issue ?

We're getting outside of my home hobbyist experience here, but I think you could guarantee the robot would be in a particular position, but the backlash might make it hard to say when the robot will get to the particular position. Using encoders on all the motors would require having inputs for each encoder, which can get complex.

My guess is you can go pretty far with janky parts if you don't run for long periods of time and also measure where they are.

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#55
post #7

Are physics engines not yet accurate enough to enable "virtual" pre-training / full training of the networks, lighting conditions, etc? If they are, exclusively using physical robots seems somewhat inefficient.

Ideally, yes, we want to pre-train in a virtual environment using as close to the real model robot as possible. I worked on such a problem as part of my PhD research on mobile robots using the Webots simulator (https://www.cyberbotics.com/overview) as my virtual environment.

In my case, I was working on biologically-inspired models for picking up distant objects. It's impractical to tune hyperparameters in hardware, so you need to be able to create a virtual version that gets you close enough. Once you can demonstrate success there, you then have to move to the physical robot, which introduces several additional challenges: 1) imperfections in your actual hardware behavior vs idealized simulated ones, 2) real-world sensor noise and constraints, 3) dealing with real-world timing and inputs instead of a clean, lock-step simulated environment, 4) having different API to poll sensors/actuate servos between virtual and hardware robots, and 5) ensuring that your trained model can be transferred effectively between your virtual and hardware robot control system.

I was able to solve these issues for my particular constrained research use case, and was pretty happy with the results. You can see a demo reel of the robot here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoIXFKVGaXw

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#56
post #7

Are physics engines not yet accurate enough to enable "virtual" pre-training / full training of the networks, lighting conditions, etc? If they are, exclusively using physical robots seems somewhat inefficient.

Ideally, yes, we want to pre-train in a virtual environment using as close to the real model robot as possible. I worked on such a problem as part of my PhD research on mobile robots using the Webots simulator ( https://www.cyberbotics.com/overview ) as my virtual environment. In my case, I was working on biologically-inspired models for picking up distant objects. It's impractical to tune hyperparameters in hardware…

How hot did that first dynamixel get?

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have long believed that we aren't going to get an AI that matches biological intelligence until it has to fend for itself. Nearly every biological function is linked to the fundamental need to survive through scarcity in hostile environments in order to reproduce and pass along genetic material. Without that need, there would not have been such rigorous evolutionary arcs that ultimately brought humans to this earth…

There are plenty of organisms on the planet that co-exist with more powerful ones and they don't attempt to wipe out the other. There would need to be such fierce competition over natural [or unnatural] resources that only one of the two organisms could exist, and then competition would give rise to a potential outcome of one extinguishing the other. Your question is simply an irrational fear, probably on the order o…

Um what? Species drive others to extinction all the time. Humans are no exception. We only preserve some species because we care and think nature is cool, but an AI doesn't need to have any such value. It would likely turn the earth into a dyson sphere to maximize it's energy intake, without giving the things on the Earth a second thought. Why would it? AIs don't have empathy or morality.

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of organisms on the planet that co-exist with more powerful ones and they don't attempt to wipe out the other. There would need to be such fierce competition over natural [or unnatural] resources that only one of the two organisms could exist, and then competition would give rise to a potential outcome of one extinguishing the other. Your question is simply an irrational fear, probably on the order o…

The Animatrix basically did what you suggested and said the first robots lived in a plot of middle eastern desert set aside for them. After a hundred years their overwhelming superiority made them the dominant economy and global superpower, and as people's living standards began to decline, they fought back.

The Animatrix is also a work of fiction.

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with a soul, whether one exists, or whether we care? A powerful and incensed President could order a nuclear strike that could end civilization as we know it. Why the concern over a theoretical intelligence that could theoretically have emotion and theoretically have so much power it could theoretically do the same?

It's hard work to become president. It is much easier to build software that can be hacked to cause far greater devastation than things can be built. Presumably an AI can hack better than humans. It doesn't matter what we define as a soul, it is the relationship humanity will have with artificial intelligences that matters. If we don't ask these questions, our children will wish we had...if they're still around.

No. You are comparing something that we know is possible, to something where we have no idea if/when it will be possible. So for all we know, it's infinitely easier to become a president. There have been 43 individuals in history who have become US president. There are 0 individuals in history who have built devastating AI.

Re: Google Wants to Solve Robotic Grasping by Letting Robots Learn for Themselves

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Animatrix basically did what you suggested and said the first robots lived in a plot of middle eastern desert set aside for them. After a hundred years their overwhelming superiority made them the dominant economy and global superpower, and as people's living standards began to decline, they fought back.

The Animatrix is also a work of fiction.

So are robots that are smarter than people.... so far.

There are no trilobites around either.

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