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Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

blog.lyft.com

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Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#131

Post by muzz »

massysett wrote: post #100
brandonmenc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A serious question to everyone complaining about uninsured drivers: do you ask your friends for proof of insurance before getting in their cars as passengers? Do any insurance companies sell passenger insurance to cover accidents when you're the passenger in a car with an underinsured driver?

I have health insurance, so treatment for my bodily injuries is covered. Someone else is driving, so if his negligence results in a wreck I generally won't be liable to the other driver. I won't be responsible for fixing his vehicle. That covers most garden-variety car wrecks, so there is little need to be concerned about my friend's insurance. I suppose if I were really on top of things, I would ask my friends for p…

> I have health insurance, so treatment for my bodily injuries is covered

No, that's not how it typically works. If the injury was caused by car accident, your insurer will likely deny the claim. This happened to me when someone rear-ended me and I went to the ER to get checked out; I didn't want to file a claim with the other party's auto insurance but had to for payment of the ER visit.

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#132

Post by nxzero »

omginternets wrote: post #128
eli wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guessing they mean the fairly common (around me) practice of a cab driver loaning their car to a friend or relative who may not have the correct licenses or carry the correct insurance.

Right, but why would this be the least of my concerns? What's the greater concern here?

Getting robbed, kidnapped, raped, killed, etc. - I personally had a "ghost" cabbie try to swipe my credit card data using a card swipper, demand to take me to an ATM, etc. - lucky, nothing "bad" happened; after the fact, called in his ID number and it wasn't real. This is a bigger issues in some areas, Uber first introduced a panic button in countries were cabbie attacks were a larger issue, but believe they're even adding it to some cities in the US now.

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#133

Post by muzz »

samstave wrote: post #115
massysett wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have health insurance, so treatment for my bodily injuries is covered. Someone else is driving, so if his negligence results in a wreck I generally won't be liable to the other driver. I won't be responsible for fixing his vehicle. That covers most garden-variety car wrecks, so there is little need to be concerned about my friend's insurance. I suppose if I were really on top of things, I would ask my friends for p…

Your injuries could potentially be more than what your insurance would pay, thus your driving friend would be liable for the injuries. Actually your insurer would likely go after his, assuming he had it, to get their costs mitigated.

Worse-- the insurer will deny the claim and make the patient go after the other person's insurance

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#134

Post by geofft »

prawn wrote: post #84
thrwwyh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get around this by limiting the amount of payment to the drivers' costs (i.e. the IRS standard mileage rate of $0.54/mile.) From the TOS: "...we may charge you to reimburse the Carpool Driver for the costs associated with a Carpool Ride provided to you. [...] Reimbursements may include per mile charges at up to the prevailing IRS standard mileage rate, and other expenses like tolls and parking fees." (Emphasis m…

If they wanted/needed to pay a higher amount, could Lyft get around this by paying the driver two fees - a first constrained one to skirt the insurance rules and then a "separate" fee for another component such as advertising or data provision or something else plausible but arbitrary?

A 1992 email from Richard Stallman about libreadline's license is, oddly enough, relevant here:

"The issue first arose when NeXT proposed to distribute a modified GCC in two parts and let the user link them. Jobs asked me whether this was lawful. It seemed to me at the time that it was, following reasoning like what you are using; but since the result was very undesirable for free software, I said I would have to ask the lawyer.

"What the lawyer said surprised me; he said that judges would consider such schemes to be 'subterfuges' and would be very harsh toward them. He said a judge would ask whether it is 'really' one program, rather than how it is labeled.

"So I went back to Jobs and said we believed his plan was not allowed by the GPL."

Judges are not computers, and are generally capable of seeing through your clever plans.

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#135

Post by bduerst »

eli wrote: post #83
bduerst wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we just skip these platform tie-ins and make an auction network for rides and deliveries? That way you can see options like dollar & time estimations across multiple available services whenever you need to go somewhere.

So... create another new platform?

A network, not a platform. Being platform agnostic makes a difference.

Think of it as building an ad auction network for multiple websites and advertisers, rather than just trying to build an ad network for just your own website.

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#136

Post by NeutronBoy »

massysett wrote: post #109
chockablock wrote: post #19

No driver background checks or vehicle inspections, per the TOS [0]: "The Carpool Platform is operated by Clara Rides, Inc., not Lyft, Inc. Clara Rides, Inc. is not a Transportation Network Company or a transportation service. Clara Rides and Lyft do not conduct criminal background checks on Carpool Drivers, perform vehicle inspections on vehicles used for Carpool Rides, or provide insurance for Carpool Rides." [0] h…

What makes this even more concerning is that the driver's insurance company may decide he is carrying passengers for hire and, therefore, that the regular car insurance offers limited or no coverage. My policy says it does not apply: "To any vehicle used to carry persons or property for compensation or a fee, including but not limited to delivery of food or any other products...However, a vehicle used in an ordinary…

> The question would be whether this is an "ordinary carpool on a cost sharing basis." Lawyers are paid to argue about these things.

I imagine the intent of this is to cover 'informal' car sharing - e.g. you have a roadtrip with a friend and both pay for petrol, or you drive to work with your neighbour and share costs.

Not sure how it would apply to Lyft Carpool - I think initially your insurance company would push back on it.

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#137

Post by bduerst »

samstave wrote: post #120
bduerst wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we just skip these platform tie-ins and make an auction network for rides and deliveries? That way you can see options like dollar & time estimations across multiple available services whenever you need to go somewhere.

Haha I said exactly this in my private slack to my ops network: Overlay "uber" app where people can submit a bid for flat-fee plus tip % from point A to point B - the idea is that uber drivers could also login to a system to select A-B trips which are bid on Driver says gimme a bid from a radius of me at point a to a radius of point b - when there is a march they connect I said that on Feb/26

Yep. You could classify trip requests for delivering people, goods, alcohol, medical, or perishable goods. A multitude of apps for people with cars could push or pull from the network, so at any time a driver (with a compatible app) could see nearby deliveries and their bids. Business services and apps users could post bids for delivery real time.

I mean, drivers already run Lyft and Uber simultaneously, and are now used to the idea of ridesharing.

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#138

Post by muzz »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #101
floodfx wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been riding the Casual Carpool for the last 6 years. Love it! The reason drivers don't care about "revenue" is that they are driving across the bridge anyway and care more about the time than money. Another way to think about it is the 30 minutes saved by picking up riders and getting into the carpool lane is payment enough. Also explains the reason why riding back to east bay is not "successful". It isn't parti…

I always wondered why they don't toll the reverse direction as well.

Aren't most tolls everywhere just in one direction? That way, half the number of toll booths are needed compared to both directions (before FastTrak, etc each lane required a human cashier)

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#139

Post by Spooky23 »

dmix wrote: post #118
nxzero wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are more concerned about getting somewhere than reading contracts, seeing proof of insurance, etc. -- this based on seeing how commuter sharing systems work in the wild. If you're super concerned, next time you flag down a taxi make sure you make sure they're not a "rogue" cabbie; them being uninsured is the the least of your concerns.

> Most people are more concerned about getting somewhere than reading contracts Indeed. I'd also add "Getting somewhere cheap ..." as a primary incentive for these rides. I've used Craigslist "ride shares" between Montreal Toronto ($30) on a number of occasions. I fully understood the risks I was taking compared to paying 3x as much for a safer train ride ($100). The vehicle is advertised as being a Mercedes mini-bus…

My brother does regulation of motor carriers for a living. The answer to "how do they do it" is -- the companies are run by organized crime, use illegal immigrant labor, and do zero maintenance.

When I say "no maintenance", I don't mean ripped carpets and dirty windows. We're talking no functioning brakes.

When there's an accident, the bus driver just runs off.

Re: Lyft Carpool: A New Way to Commute

#140

Post by nxzero »

dmix wrote: post #118
nxzero wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are more concerned about getting somewhere than reading contracts, seeing proof of insurance, etc. -- this based on seeing how commuter sharing systems work in the wild. If you're super concerned, next time you flag down a taxi make sure you make sure they're not a "rogue" cabbie; them being uninsured is the the least of your concerns.

> Most people are more concerned about getting somewhere than reading contracts Indeed. I'd also add "Getting somewhere cheap ..." as a primary incentive for these rides. I've used Craigslist "ride shares" between Montreal Toronto ($30) on a number of occasions. I fully understood the risks I was taking compared to paying 3x as much for a safer train ride ($100). The vehicle is advertised as being a Mercedes mini-bus…

Right, if people could "magically" be anywhere they wanted instantly, safely, free, etc. - who would go somewhere any other way unless it was for the experience of doing so. Most people don't even realize how dangerous driving is currently relative to other risks to health and life; sorry, but I'd take zero risk over being insured for it any day.
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