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Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

computerworld.com

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Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#101

Post by wahsd »

jimbokun wrote: post #75
tyingq wrote: post #35

FYI, Oracle is pushing this agenda to squeeze Java shops in other places as well. The tack they are taking is to define any computer that does "one specific thing" as an embedded device and ask you for $300+ per "device", plus some other lofty fees. ( http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/price-lists/java-... ) So, if you're using Java in a kiosk, ATM, media player, etc, they may be coming for you. My guess is t…

My guess is this just spawns a mass migration away from Java altogether. Not knowing when Oracle might decide to shake down your business is a massive incentive to use anything else.

Didn't I recently hear something about Google rebuilding Android to remove Java? Or am I totally off?

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#102

Post by rincebrain »

wahsd wrote: post #101
jimbokun wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is this just spawns a mass migration away from Java altogether. Not knowing when Oracle might decide to shake down your business is a massive incentive to use anything else.

Didn't I recently hear something about Google rebuilding Android to remove Java? Or am I totally off?

That would likely cost much more than this extortion, and still wouldn't save them.

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#104

Post by jinst8gmi »

mr_overalls wrote: post #93

C# is such a nice language, and Microsoft has been making such strides toward openness and cross-platform with .NET lately. Imagine if Microsoft granted Google a perpetual license to use C#.

Brainfuck probably has an equal chance of being selected as C#. The problem is more that the APIs and all of the existing apps. Google can't just wake up one morning and decide that everything will be now in language XYZ because there are literally millions of apps for Android which have been written in Java against Java APIs. C# would also be an unusual choice for a company that does zero(?) C# work.

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#105

Post by Caid11 »

wahsd wrote: post #101
jimbokun wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is this just spawns a mass migration away from Java altogether. Not knowing when Oracle might decide to shake down your business is a massive incentive to use anything else.

Didn't I recently hear something about Google rebuilding Android to remove Java? Or am I totally off?

I think they said they were moving to OpenJDK for Android.

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#106

Post by jorgecastillo »

If this teaches us anything, is that you should avoid as hard as you can, giving others rope, with which they can hang you. I avoid Java anywhere I can, so for me, Java is only for mobile apps on Android.

I also invite anyone reading this comment, to read the following story, which always comes to my mind in this sort of events: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#107

Post by tracker1 »

mr_overalls wrote: post #93

C# is such a nice language, and Microsoft has been making such strides toward openness and cross-platform with .NET lately. Imagine if Microsoft granted Google a perpetual license to use C#.

They're already working with MIT and a patent release.

https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/LICENSE.TXT

https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/PATENTS.TXT

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#108

Post by cwyers »

coldtea wrote: post #90
cwyers wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on Earth are you talking about? From Google's own developer reference[1]: > Android provides a rich application framework that allows you to build innovative apps and games for mobile devices in a Java language environment. In order to compile for Android, you use JACK, the Java Android Compiler Kit.[2] I could go on. Google uses the name Java all the time in reference to the language used for Android. Google di…

That's because, as they explicitly write: "Android follows the package and class namespace conventions defined by the Java programming language". And obviously, the names in the packages are carried over, including sun.*, and the documentation is gonna follow that -- though the official name of the runtime is Dalvik (and ART), not Java or JVM or anything like that. As I wrote, that was intentional, so that it's immed…

I think you're conflating Java the language and the Java Virtual Machine. Android does not run the JVM, it runs Dalvik and now ART. Android is going to continue to do this. But it has and will continue to use Java the language, not some language based off Java, as well.

And in fact Oracle's lawsuit is about neither the language or the runtime, it's about the APIs. Yes, they were taken from Apache Harmony. Oracle insists that Android's use of them infringes because Google created a derived work, incompatible with the full Java API, from the Harmony implementation of the Java API. Google, in fact, is replacing the Harmony code with OpenJDK[1], Oracle's official open-source implementation of the Java API. (Which is one of about a billion reasons why your claim that Android uses a language based on Java instead of actually using Java is so baffling -- it's so based on Java that they can replace their code with Oracle's official Java implementation!)

[1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/android-n-switche...

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#109

Post by thrillgore »

tyingq wrote: post #35

FYI, Oracle is pushing this agenda to squeeze Java shops in other places as well. The tack they are taking is to define any computer that does "one specific thing" as an embedded device and ask you for $300+ per "device", plus some other lofty fees. ( http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/price-lists/java-... ) So, if you're using Java in a kiosk, ATM, media player, etc, they may be coming for you. My guess is t…

How would this affect me if i'm using Tomcat to run something like Solr? Am I suddenly on the hook to pay Oracle, even if I am using OpenJDK?

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#110

Post by russellbeattie »

ausjke wrote: post #57

Google should have acquired Sun instead of buying dropcam/boston-dynamics/motorola and such.

Given how much Google owed Sun in terms of technology and employees pulled from Sun over the years, I always thought not buying the company was an especially cynical move. Sort of like, "Ha! We got all their stuff for free and now they're gone! We win!" Payback's a bitch - though in this case it's not just going to be Google that pays. Oracle is vicious.
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