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Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

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91–100 of 156 posts

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#91
post #57

Google should have acquired Sun instead of buying dropcam/boston-dynamics/motorola and such.

How amazing would that have been? Zfs might have helped the world move forward a lot faster... Sigh...

Let's give Oracle 10 years from now to fade from relevance as yet another fucked by cloud vendor and Google can then orchestrate a hostile takeover.

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#92

I was thoroughly impressed with the judge who presided over the last ruling -- IIRC he went so far as to learn at least the basics of Java to the point where I remember being impressed by the insight of the questions he posed. There are subsets of law one can specialize in ranging from medical malpractice to obscure patent litigation, but as far as I know there are no factors linking a presiding judge to a specific s…

On software like JDK, my feeling (without thinking too much) is that the API is actually the most valuable part and the one that requires true expertise to craft.

Java Map interface specifies: V get(Object key) I was horrified when I realized you could pass any object to get()

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#94
post #57

Google should have acquired Sun instead of buying dropcam/boston-dynamics/motorola and such.

How amazing would that have been? Zfs might have helped the world move forward a lot faster... Sigh... Let's give Oracle 10 years from now to fade from relevance as yet another fucked by cloud vendor and Google can then orchestrate a hostile takeover.

To speed that up, just buy Postgresql and use that to smother both Oracle DB and to some extent, mysql. Defence only helps that much, offence can do it a lot faster on their own DB territory.

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#95
post #35

FYI, Oracle is pushing this agenda to squeeze Java shops in other places as well. The tack they are taking is to define any computer that does "one specific thing" as an embedded device and ask you for $300+ per "device", plus some other lofty fees. ( http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/price-lists/java-... ) So, if you're using Java in a kiosk, ATM, media player, etc, they may be coming for you. My guess is t…

will this affect jvm languages as well?

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#96
post #11

Oracle should pay Google for using Java in Android and keeping the language somewhere around edge of hip and cool. I wonder how long it will be before Google flips to Go or JavaScript for Android.

I don't think anyone has used "hip and cool" and "Java" in the same sentence for at least 15 years (2001) and no amount of Android can fix that.

Kotlin? :) --> https://kotlinlang.org/

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not more difficult per se, but more obfuscated. So much brands, paradigms, domain specific metalanguage. Medicine, physics have some kind of shared, time-tested foundations.

>Medicine, physics have some kind of shared, time-tested foundations. So do programming languages.

You mean the various kinds of semantics ? in that case yes, otherwise if it's for framework of the day, stack of the day it's hard to reason and compare anything.

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not more difficult per se, but more obfuscated. So much brands, paradigms, domain specific metalanguage. Medicine, physics have some kind of shared, time-tested foundations.

>Medicine, physics have some kind of shared, time-tested foundations. So do programming languages.

You could argue programming really took off in the 80s, and look at the plethora of languages then that are obsolete. Medicine and physics are more than 100 years old; programming is very new in the grand scheme of things and rapidly changing as it "finds itself." It's not very convincing to assert it has "time-tested foundations."

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone has used "hip and cool" and "Java" in the same sentence for at least 15 years (2001) and no amount of Android can fix that.

Kotlin? :) --> https://kotlinlang.org/

...which uses the Java API and libs... It's a more pleasant option than Java but it's not going to solve the API copyright issues.

Re: Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On software like JDK, my feeling (without thinking too much) is that the API is actually the most valuable part and the one that requires true expertise to craft.

Why do you think so? The java.* API is not even that good (it is very verbose to achieve basic things). The only reason to re-implement it is compatibility with existing, third-party software using that API. If you would come with API, that would be technically better, but doing the same thing, do you think that everyone would rewrite all their libraries, frameworks and apps? No way.

That's the point. The API isn't valuable because of the creative expression (the thing copyright protects), it's valuable because its functionality (the thing copyright doesn't protect) is necessary for compatibility.

Oracle apparently bamboozled the Federal Circuit into deciding that something called the "structure, sequence and organization" of the API should be copyrightable. But of course nobody cares about that part -- the order doesn't matter. You can sort the API into alphabetical order and strip out all the comments and it would make no real difference to anybody. But here is Oracle claiming that the copyrightable part is worth billions of dollars.

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