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My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

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Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#171
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maciej is a fabulous writer with a deft mix of wry, self-deprecating wit and precise expressions. If you aren't familiar with his writing, you'd likely enjoy "Dabblers and Blowhards" http://www.idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm

Or my favourite: http://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_t...

WTF did I just read? I think it was genius but I'm not entirely sure.

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#172
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That didn't happen. Please cite.

Its a fairly well known accusation that has many pieces of circumstantial evidence as well as many lawsuits. Many business owners have claimed yelp salespeople have called them and tried to sell them the ability to bring down unfavorable reviews or that they would highlight them. One google search away: yelp wins lawsuit that says they are perfectly within their rights to manipulate their ratings: http://www.dailydot…

> “[T]he business owners did not allege sufficient facts to support their claim that Yelp authored negative user reviews of their businesses.”

The ruling was that if yelp manipulated ratings, that's fine, but there's no evidence they did. I don't know whether to believe they've done it or not. There's a lot of business owners over the years who report having gotten shady calls, but it'd be really hard to prove those calls are from yelp and not from fly-by-night scammers. I get calls from "Cardholder Services" and "Microsoft" pretty regularly, so it shouldn't be surprising if there are extortive yelp scammers.

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#173

I am the CEO over at IFTTT. I apologize for any misunderstanding our communications today have caused. I built the Pinboard Channel on IFTTT and have maintained it for years. I am also a paying customer of Pinboard! I’ve built for hundreds of platforms and any changes to those platforms by default suck. At IFTTT, we've been on the receiving end of platform changes too many times to count. I want to make sure we do it…

"we've been on the receiving end of platform changes too many times to count." But this is the value you provide, this is your raison d'etre.

So true. IFTTT is the glue not the paper. If they wish to go ahead and glue the papers accurately, it's not the paper producers job to make sticky paper.

This is a legal, future setting precedent for ifttt and they're gambling on weaker websites to get squeezed.

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#174

I am the CEO over at IFTTT. I apologize for any misunderstanding our communications today have caused. I built the Pinboard Channel on IFTTT and have maintained it for years. I am also a paying customer of Pinboard! I’ve built for hundreds of platforms and any changes to those platforms by default suck. At IFTTT, we've been on the receiving end of platform changes too many times to count. I want to make sure we do it…

"I’ve built for hundreds of platforms and any changes to those platforms by default suck. At IFTTT, we've been on the receiving end of platform changes too many times to count."

Isn't that the entire premise of your service, providing this glue? Yeah, it's painful work. That's why people like your service! Sure, it would be great for you if the other services would do some of the work. But I'm guessing that you would not go along with Twitter requesting all intellectual property rights to your integration code for the right to use their API. Why would you request it of the services that integrate with you?

But the biggest problem here is that you changed the game. You created and maintained the Pinboard integration. You should own up to not wanting to maintain it. The message you sent to Pinboard users about your decision was... "misleading" is the nicest way to put it.

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#175
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being CEO of IFTTT must not be a very demanding job if you offer to come over to every service that connects to your platform, in order to contribute to coding their API. Joking aside, Maciej isn't asking for "more time", he's asking for: 1. Money, if he has to do your work for you 2. Some kind of guaranty that your undocumented, private API won't change without notice in the future, rendering all this work useless 3…

Actually, all I want is for existing IFTTT recipes that use Pinboard not to break. I am fine with IFTTT discontinuing support for my site because of our diverging views on whether a service like IFTTT should be a platform or a roll of duct tape, but the stuff people have duct-taped together should stay duct-taped together.

This whole thing is exactly my problem with duct-tape as a service. Stuff a Huginn docker container (FOSS IFTTT) on your own server and bam, personal duct-tape.

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#176
post #111

HN meta: I'm sort of disappointed that this has been getting downvoted. Obviously, what Linden is saying in this case is probably not helping his business case. It's clear to me that he either does not understand why Maciej doesn't want to implement a private API, or does not wish to understand it. On the other hand, neither of those things are grounds for a downvote, I think. A downvote says "this content shouldn't…

I agree, but I feel that HN in general thinks downvotes are for "I don't like what you said".

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hobby: role-playing how I would respond as the CEO if my company was getting skewered on HN. Here is my version! --- I am [not] the CEO over at IFTTT. We messed up. Big time. Pinboard -- and other services developers love -- played an important role in our success thus far and we dropped the ball with the roll-out of our new platform. We have a shared incentive: to make channels work reliably for our end-users. To…

I think your hobby could be a MVP for the first CAaaS -- CEO Apologies As A Service. (If you act fast, Theranos could be your first Enterprise customer.)

Funny! Now for a business name... "Palms Up, Inc."? Or maybe just "Public Relations LLC."

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#178
post #116

I am the CEO over at IFTTT. I apologize for any misunderstanding our communications today have caused. I built the Pinboard Channel on IFTTT and have maintained it for years. I am also a paying customer of Pinboard! I’ve built for hundreds of platforms and any changes to those platforms by default suck. At IFTTT, we've been on the receiving end of platform changes too many times to count. I want to make sure we do it…

I'm a pinboard user, and an IFTTT user. I've also made a few recipes on IFTTT including the pinboard > Google Calendar one. The sum of your comments on here mean that I'll be looking to reimplement all of the IFTTT recipes I use on Botize. You've stood by your legal team and defended the ToC, in addition to how this has been communicated and handled, and what it is you're trying to do. Are you really trying to assert…

Agree with your last point: like it or not, these moments are pivot points and it's very likely not the right answer to try to ignore them and continue to plow ahead full steam.

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but in general the penalty for breaking the terms of a contract, in the absence of an explicit damages clause, are whatever business loss the other party suffers as a result.

Indeed, but are the terms of service a contract? Is there any consideration? The answer is probably no, they are merely a set of expectations they have around providing their service.

Any binding agreement between two parties is a contract. There is consideration on both sides: IFTTT is providing access to their dev kit and service, the recipient is implementing an API and providing access to their data. Both sides are, in principle, getting something from the agreement (of course, it's very lopsided and unfavorable to the recipient). Again, IANAL.

Re: My Heroic and Lazy Stand Against IFTTT

#180

It would be easier to support IFTTT on this if the proposed APIs to be implemented were public. But making the APIs private and then being a dick about it with all the legal threats isn't something that I can reasonably support. I doubt I'm alone in thinking this way.

We fully intend to make the APIs public, but are working with existing partners to implement. We are trying to be flexible and understanding, also are not throwing legal threats :)

So you "intent" to eventually make the APIs public but hold your partners to the gun and shut them off if they don't meet all your demands (ToS, new API dev).

What I'm hearing is you want partners to trust your intents but you don't trust any of theirs—as evidenced by the terms of service that is required and binding. The "not throwing legal threats" part comes off very hollow in that context.

If you did trust your partners, you'd make a new API alongside the current setup, and it would be so awesome that people would switch on their own. But as others already pointed out, it seems the value in the new API is self-serving and is inexistent for your partners.

I'm all for collaboration but I suspect you are trying to build a moat around your business and make a ubiquitous platform. I sincerely hope this backfires.

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