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Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

psychologytoday.com

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Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#221

Post by JoeAltmaier »

hamstergene wrote: post #220
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

I often notice people assume evolution to be "wise" and "nice" when searching for evolutionary explanations, which it is neither. Evolutionarily speaking, just because something has evolved does not mean it happened for a purpose, or is useful at all. Pathological anxiety and depression may actually be purely disadvantageous mutations which nevertheless still passed evolution filters because they are not disadvantage…

But most human variations are recent! We've changed more in the last 50,000 years than the previous 1M years. I'd say, instead of a real purpose, any 'breakages' are likely coincidental to some other, more advantageous adaptation. Getting smaller and more calorie-efficient (to suit the village/town/city/urban environment) may mean biochemical changes that change our mental state. Not because we 'need' that mental state, but because its better for the clan if more of us fit closer together.

So many adaptations are sledgehammers for a smaller problem. Evolution doesn't plan; it just diddles around until something (sort of) works. And our bodies are the unfortunate result!

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#222

Post by hipsterrific »

pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

The author addresses social structures and we seem to live in an age of increasing isolatedness amongst people. I thought it would have been a hard read (I suffer from depression) but it's also liberating to see it in a different light.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#223

Post by phineastcat »

sowhatquestion wrote: post #150
themgt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with using a purely neurochemical explanation like this is the rates of these disorders differ dramatically between societies and within societies geographically, demographically and over time. It is clear that the United States in particular is, especially in recent years, churning out unprecedented numbers of severely psychologically ill individuals. The idea this is solely due to previously undiagnosed…

> It is clear that the United States in particular is, especially in recent years, churning out unprecedented numbers of severely psychologically ill individuals. Is it clear? Or have we gotten better at diagnosing conditions that people have been experiencing all along? (Not to mention reducing stigma and making people more likely to admit to having these conditions.) In any case, citation needed.

When I got diagnosed with manic depression, I did some research on my family medical history going back several generations. Many of them through two lineages (my father's mother's family, and my mother's father's family) in my family exhibited symptoms of manic depression, but have no corresponding diagnoses.

Not anything scientific, but it does point toward the fact that destigmatizing mental illnesses and our better understanding of them is leading to more diagnoses, not anything else. Everyone's quick to forget how horrifying psychiatric care in the US was up until quite recently.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#224

Post by blisse »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #61
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

> Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some purpose, and yet we treat them both like meaningless pain meant only to be banished using drugs. I believe both are signals that something in our environment is not working for us. They indicate emotional or physical needs unmet---needs for safety, autonomy, connection, etc. > Often the individual suffering is fundamentally unaware…

I really enjoy this analogy as well, thanks!

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#225

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #61
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

> Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some purpose, and yet we treat them both like meaningless pain meant only to be banished using drugs. I believe both are signals that something in our environment is not working for us. They indicate emotional or physical needs unmet---needs for safety, autonomy, connection, etc. > Often the individual suffering is fundamentally unaware…

Bad metaphors for chronic pain don't really help here.

There probably aren't any scenarios where, if you just removed the depression/anxiety "everything else" would be just fine.

What has happened is this: mainstream culture claims that these scenarios are fine when they are not, and so people seek to remove the depression and/or anxiety from them without even questioning whether the scenarios themselves are very healthy.

You're unable (unwilling) to accept that these circumstances are bad. You don't want to change them, you want reality to be something other than it is so that your culture can continue as it has without changing and growing. You would prefer that people numb themselves to it rather than address these defects.

The article's example is full of these.

* People pushed into college who do not want to be there * Parents of young children divorcing * Parents of young children remarrying * Shallow friendships * Hookups

These are not problems that will be easier to fix if he's doped up on prozac, they aren't problems you probably even want to acknowledge as such.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#226

Post by _archon_ »

Fordrus wrote: post #85
funkysquid wrote: post #2

> Or if you are outside for a long time in the cold with no jacket, upon feeling very cold, you don’t say that you have "a coldness disorder". A better example for anxiety or depression would be standing inside in a warm room, and despite everyone else in the room being comfortable, you are unable to warm up at all. When you complain, you are told that "everyone gets cold sometimes". This article doesn't seem to have…

Let me just take a moment to register monumentally huge agreement with your modification of the the metaphor at hand. The problem here is that huge numbers of other people are living in almost exactly the same circumstances - or ones that are objectively worse - and they register no depression . And here, by objectively worse, we're talking, risk their lives daily on a shoestring lifestyle that barely keeps them from…

I propose the following: Why not slightly change the >'figure out what need is being unfulfilled in your life, and fill it'

...and amend it to read: >'figure out (through a well-defined, detailed, objective process with the help of your psych(olog/ichiatr)ist [I'm not a medical human]) if there is a need that's being unfulfilled in your life, and make a plan to incrementally, sustainably fill it'

That changes the nature of the argument significantly. I propose that this may be a valuable line of inquiry to take before/during pharmacological treatment.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#227

Post by Tempest1981 »

some-guy wrote: post #59

There's a HUGE difference between depression/anxiety the symptom, and major depressive disorder. For those with an hour to kill, Robert Sapolsky has a wonderful, accessible lecture on the topic[1]. 1.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

Good descriptive word: Anhedonia -- the inability to experience pleasure from activities usually found enjoyable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia

Also: psychomotor retardation: Physical difficulty performing activities which normally would require little thought or effort such as walking up a flight of stairs, getting out of bed, preparing meals and clearing dishes from the table, household chores or returning phone calls. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychomotor_retardation

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#228

Post by radlad »

Taek wrote: post #216
Dylan16807 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some purpose, and yet we treat them both like meaningless pain meant only to be banished using drugs. I believe both are signals that something in our environment is not working for us. They indicate emotional or physical needs unmet---needs for safety, autonomy, connection, etc. > Often the individual suffering is fundamentally unaware…

Depression is sometimes described a numbing experience. Everything loses color, loses that spark. Sometimes, everything hurts, nothing feels good. Making the same daily decisions is painful and slow, like walking through an ocean of glass. Depression gives you the power to make really big decisions. Everything hurts about the same. Going to work is about as painful as staying home, meaning it's easier to quit a horri…

This is a really interesting perspective. Not sure if I agree with it 100%, but really something to consider. Thank you for sharing.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#229

Post by Grishnakh »

pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

>Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some purpose, and yet we treat them both like meaningless pain meant only to be banished using drugs. I believe both are signals that something in our environment is not working for us. They indicate emotional or physical needs unmet---needs for safety, autonomy, connection, etc.

Yes, that's all true IMO, but the problem is that many times, it simply isn't feasible to change your environment. So antidepressants are a good way to deal with the problem.

For instance, suppose you live in the ghetto and are constantly struggling to make ends meet. How do you change your environment here? Well, here in American, you don't. You just suffer. If it were that easy to get out of poverty, most people in that trap would do it. Indeed, many things in society seem to be actively designed to keep people trapped in poverty.

What if you're lonely because you're single and have never had any success dating, and the reason is that you're cursed with being extremely unattractive? There again, there's only so much you can do to change that. (Or worse, you have a serious physical disability, which really limits how many people are willing to date you.)

>but I believe the depression/anxiety are there to force our conscious self and the people around us to acknowledge that something is wrong.

Sounds like an interesting theory, but in reality, at least in this society, it seems to have the opposite effect: it makes you an outcast. No one wants to be around depressed people, so they're stuck being lonely, which feeds the depression, it's a vicious cycle. Antidepressants can really help a lot here, by giving you a short-term boost to jump-start your social life and just to help you cope with life in general.

>This is a completely different paradigm that explains depression and anxiety as meaningful signals of underlying problems rather than as inexplicable suffering to be numbed through prescription medication. I believe it will prove the more robust and also the wiser way of looking at these experiences.

I think the problem with this idea is that this seems to require some gigantic changes in our very culture and how we deal with people who are depressed.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#230

Post by strathmeyer »

Lol I'm depressed because I can't find a job. I can't find a job because I don't have a job. Which is sort of depressing. Which doesn't make looking for jobs fun. Depression makes you not want to do things that aren't fun. So I keep looking for jobs with the hope it can bring me out of my depression. But when I ask for people for job help they are a jerk to me. When I mention I am a little sad they say I need to act happy to get a job. They get upset that I'm not happy. But.... that's what I was upset about!
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