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Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

psychologytoday.com

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Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#41

Post by graycat »

DanBC wrote: post #32
graycat wrote: post #23

While trying better to understand someone else in my family, the expert advice I got was that anxiety is nearly always genetic, that is, nature and not nurture. And the expert claimed that it is known that psychotherapy, e.g., as suggested in the OP, doesn't work for anxiety or some of its other symptoms, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social phobia, paranoia, hysteria, psychopathic-passive. For more, there is David…

> And the expert claimed that it is known that psychotherapy, e.g., as suggested in the OP, doesn't work for anxiety or some of its other symptoms, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social phobia, paranoia, That's an interesting bit of advice. English NICE recommends psychotherapy for front line treatment of anxiety. https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/qs53

My info was first hand from the Chief of Psychiatry, Westchester County Hospital, NY, USA. He seemed darned serious, bright, well informed, enormously experienced, and competent.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#43

Post by fucking_tragedy »

pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

How are suicidal ideation/attempts and 'successful' suicides explained by this hypothesis?

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#44

Post by [deleted] »

true_religion wrote: post #27
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

I'm not sure why you are calling this a new paradigm. Don't most, if not all, therapists deal with depression as a symptom for necessary changes in life circumstance? Yes, every particular case is different, but in general, therapy is meant to motivate you to make a change---either in perspective, or practice or upon external sources of angst.

[deleted]

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#45

Post by TeMPOraL »

smegel wrote: post #7
jolux wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real depression comes out of nowhere, hits you like a ton of bricks, and makes you wish you weren't alive.

I agree with this, but I also think a lot of "non-real depression" is too easily diagnosed as the real thing. A lot of depressed people could be "cured" by just changing circumstances in their life (not that it is always easy, but saying there is stuff in your life you can't change and it is making you depressed, doesn't make it a mental illness). But you have worn out doctors facing a tough choice: do the near impos…

I disagree about the way this choice is painted. It's never "just changing circumstances" - people who have problems that directly caused by something in their lives will stumble upon the solution by sheer luck.

We should actually be grateful that there are pills that for many people can insta-cure or significantly reduce the symptoms of depression. It means they get a shot at much better life in exchange of having to take some medication everyday. Contrast that not with "just changing circumstances" - contrast that with no other solution at all.

I'm happy every time we can find a pill for solving a problem - because the pill actually works. Social approaches to solving problems is often a tool for politicians to invent new ineffective methods at non-solving things, and for a lot of people to make money out of it. See e.g. various strategies for solving drug addiction.

Also note an interesting post on the topic: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolog....

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#46

Post by rifung »

Chlorus wrote: post #35
rifung wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does the article treat depression as the fault of the individual? Seems more like a failing of our society to recognize the importance of relationships. I'd argue this is especially true in the US where we obsess over careers and monetary wealth much more than we emphasize the importance of friendships, family, and romance. Considering how little we understand about the brain and psychological disorders,…

> Seems more like a failing of our society to recognize the importance of relationships. I'd argue this is especially true in the US where we obsess over careers and monetary wealth much more than we emphasize the importance of friendships, family, and romance. {{ citation needed }}

I apologize; I thought this was just generally accepted as fact so I appreciate you pointing out my own bias.

This article mentions how the US is more materialistic than other countries, although it's not the main point of the article. Still, I do find the other points equally interesting. http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/01/consumerism.aspx

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#47

Post by Kenji »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #43
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

How are suicidal ideation/attempts and 'successful' suicides explained by this hypothesis?

The agony is so horrible that the depressed deludes himself into thinking that death is the only way out.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#48

Post by retbull »

themgt wrote: post #30
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

Thanks for the perspective, and ditto. It sounds condescending, and obviously physical brain damage (e.g. CTE) can cause depression completely separately from life circumstances, but I would venture that for a majority of people who say "My life is just fine but I am depressed anyway", their life is not actually fine. It's not even that they are lying, but we humans are very good at hiding truths, even from ourselves…

But drugs are awesome :D

Seriously though, compared to being depressed when you can't fix it because you don't have any idea that something is wrong, drugs are fucking amazing. The shitty part is people end up trapped now as the drugs can fuel the negativity which lead to the depression in the first place.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#49

Post by tbirdz »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #43
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

How are suicidal ideation/attempts and 'successful' suicides explained by this hypothesis?

First let me preface this by saying that I have no training in psychology or related fields, so this comment may be complete bunk.

I think that suicide could have some evolutionary advantage in a group. Say there is a member of a group who has become sick, injured, or otherwise incapacitated and is unable to contribute to the group. The group must spend more work to take care of the member than they receive back from the individuals paltry, or nonexistent contributions to the group. If the member's ailment is temporary, then it would be advantageous for the group to bear the burden of taking care of the member, as they would benefit more in the long run.

However, if the member's condition is more permanent, then they represent a net loss to the group's well-being. It would then benefit the group as a whole if that member were to commit suicide, eliminating their burden from the group.

I think this is something that many individuals with suicidal ideation feel on some level. They think that they cannot contribute to their group (family, friends, job, community, country, etc), and that their lack of contribution will be indefinite. For example, a person with anxiety so bad that they are unable to leave the house or get a job might feel like a burden to their family, and unable to contribute. Or, a person with depression might have such a low opinion of themselves that they are unable to see the contributions they are making, or think that their contributions are meaningless and so feel like they are not contributing anything at all worthwhile.

Even though suicide could have had evolutionary advantages in the earlier days of human existence, in modern times I don't think this is the case any longer. With modern medicines and technologies, medical conditions are not as crippling as in the past, and there are more ways to contribute to a group than ever, even without being able to walk or leave the home. The difficulty would then seem to be either helping the suicidal individual to find a group and method of worthwhile contribution, or helping the individual to understand the ways they are already contributing to a group and why that contribution is worthwhile.

Of course, this is just a baseless theory of mine, and I would be very curious to see if there is any actual evidence to back this up.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#50

Post by TeMPOraL »

themgt wrote: post #11
jolux wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean unsubstantiated? If you mean it's less than certain than sure, but SSRIs and SNRIs and NaSSAs and such improve depression greatly for many patients. That at least says something about serotonin levels in patients with depression.

"Opiates improve pain-in-arm symptoms greatly for many patients. That at least says something about opiate levels in patients with pain-in-arm."

And by studying how they work we learn about how pain works. Compare to alternative, "keep smiling and find better friends". Fuck that. Even if it was relevant (it probably isn't), I can't smile or talk to people, because I'm constantly in agony because of my arm. I'll stick to opiates because they let me live.
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