Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

psychologytoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 281 posts

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#31

Post by rifung »

LandoCalrissian wrote: post #5

This is a terrible article that completely treats depression as the fault of the individual. Pretty irresponsible frankly.

In what way does the article treat depression as the fault of the individual?

Seems more like a failing of our society to recognize the importance of relationships. I'd argue this is especially true in the US where we obsess over careers and monetary wealth much more than we emphasize the importance of friendships, family, and romance.

Considering how little we understand about the brain and psychological disorders, it seems premature to dismiss the article so easily, especially when the author is a practicing psychologist and presumably has had some level of success with his methods.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#32

Post by DanBC »

graycat wrote: post #23

While trying better to understand someone else in my family, the expert advice I got was that anxiety is nearly always genetic, that is, nature and not nurture. And the expert claimed that it is known that psychotherapy, e.g., as suggested in the OP, doesn't work for anxiety or some of its other symptoms, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social phobia, paranoia, hysteria, psychopathic-passive. For more, there is David…

> And the expert claimed that it is known that psychotherapy, e.g., as suggested in the OP, doesn't work for anxiety or some of its other symptoms, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social phobia, paranoia,

That's an interesting bit of advice. English NICE recommends psychotherapy for front line treatment of anxiety. https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/qs53

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#34

Post by pc2g4d »

true_religion wrote: post #27
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

I'm not sure why you are calling this a new paradigm. Don't most, if not all, therapists deal with depression as a symptom for necessary changes in life circumstance? Yes, every particular case is different, but in general, therapy is meant to motivate you to make a change---either in perspective, or practice or upon external sources of angst.

You're right, this is not new to psychology itself. It's more of a direct challenge to the culturally powerful psychiatric/biomedical approach to depression and anxiety.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#35

Post by Chlorus »

rifung wrote: post #31
LandoCalrissian wrote: post #5

This is a terrible article that completely treats depression as the fault of the individual. Pretty irresponsible frankly.

In what way does the article treat depression as the fault of the individual? Seems more like a failing of our society to recognize the importance of relationships. I'd argue this is especially true in the US where we obsess over careers and monetary wealth much more than we emphasize the importance of friendships, family, and romance. Considering how little we understand about the brain and psychological disorders,…

> Seems more like a failing of our society to recognize the importance of relationships. I'd argue this is especially true in the US where we obsess over careers and monetary wealth much more than we emphasize the importance of friendships, family, and romance.

{{ citation needed }}

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#36

Post by xlm1717 »

pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

Definitely agree with this. The exchange the doctor describes to begin the article is also common online. I've spent a lot of time in anxiety and depression support forums and chat rooms for my own problems with anxiety. The most common view is that anxiety and depression are diseases that you need to take medicine to treat.

No doubt medicine has its uses in treating anxiety and depression, a momentary reprieve can grant you the clarity to see what you do need to change to feel better. However, I see many people online who cling so strongly to the idea that anxiety and depression are chemical imbalances that you are unlucky enough to be predisposed to developing and that balance can only be restored through medication, that when you suggest that anxiety and depression are not diseases and so can be treated to the point that they are not a problem anymore, people will react violently, as if you just assaulted their identity.

This line of thinking makes it extremely difficult for them to get relief. It is also beneficial to pharmaceutical companies who can make a customer for life by convincing customers that if they don't have a certain medication they will always feel miserable.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#37

Post by pessimizer »

darkclarity wrote: post #20
LandoCalrissian wrote: post #5

This is a terrible article that completely treats depression as the fault of the individual. Pretty irresponsible frankly.

The way I got out of those sorts of issues was by noticing that the medical system is inadequate. It is geared towards hiding symptoms with drugs - to get people back into work, even if those people are a mess inside. It's all down to personal responsibility. You have to find the drive inside to constantly push. To forget the victim mentality that society encourages. To fix one problem at a time. To fight the hellish…

I get how authoritarian pill pushers turn people into libertarian bootstrap people, but just because your depression isn't chemical doesn't mean it's your fault, or that there's anything that you can ultimately do about it by yourself. My problem with the pills is that they don't work, because they're targeted at a made-up disease. That the disease that current practice has lumped people into is made up doesn't mean that people are not suffering, they are, and doesn't mean that they don't need help; we do.

Talking to people, making sure that they're healthy, connected, secure, and that they feel like they can express themselves is more expensive than drugging them and/or warehousing them, so I don't think that avoiding the depression diagnosis should reduce public spending or concern with the same sufferers, but raise it. I also assume that when the people who are now lumped together in depression diagnoses are dealt with with more precise approaches, there will always be places among those approaches where drugging and warehousing will be the best option.

Treating sadness with drugs is like how we try to cure poverty with teachers.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#38

Post by brador »

xlm1717 wrote: post #36
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

Definitely agree with this. The exchange the doctor describes to begin the article is also common online. I've spent a lot of time in anxiety and depression support forums and chat rooms for my own problems with anxiety. The most common view is that anxiety and depression are diseases that you need to take medicine to treat. No doubt medicine has its uses in treating anxiety and depression, a momentary reprieve can g…

There are also some forums where people discuss abusing a depression/anxiety diagnosis to claim disability welfare. This is much more widespread than most people realise since the rates are higher and the requirements much lower than regular welfare.

It's a surprisingly cushy lifestyle, and some would do anything to keep it. And that entire structure is dependent on depression/anxiety being seen as a medical problem with no solution, only medication.

They are very vocal in it's protection.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#39

Post by rsp1984 »

I'm not a psychologist or have received any other professional training in this direction but really I think there are two types of depression.

- Clinical depression. The disease type that for many "comes out of nowhere" and paralyzes people to the point where they can't leave bed any more. I'd venture to say it's the minority of cases but the author may be wrong in putting them in the same group as the...

- Symptom depression. That's what I think the author is talking about and what I think is the majority of cases. People who work a lot call it "burn-out". Those affected can still function in daily live but quality of life is still pretty poor.

It's probably a mistake to put the first kind in the same class as the second kind. However I think it is a far bigger mistake to treat the second kind like the first kind and that's I think what the author was trying to say (and I would very much agree with it).

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#40

Post by stantona »

pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

..or that for some individuals, those who suffer bipolar (such as myself) or clinical depression, there's a biological factor that has little relation to past circumstances.
Post reply on HN