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Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

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Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#71

Post by ryandrake »

liber8 wrote: post #56
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #18

"When you play the lottery, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But it's better than using drugs or alcohol because when you use drugs or alcohol, you always lose" - "American Movie" People who don't play the lottery are always so quick to dismiss it. They disregard how accessible it is - you don't need a next-gen console or flat-screen tv, just cash - as they disregard how independently fun it is - you could b…

"you could be sitting alone in a dark room with nothing but a lottery ticket in your hand and be perfectly satisfied with fantasies of winning" This is one of the biggest reasons I dislike the lottery, from a societal perspective: it satisfies people who would otherwise have an incentive to go out and create their own success. You can see this anytime the jackpots get big enough that non-players buy tickets. There is…

You act as though everyone has the opportunity "to go out and create their own success," which is less and less true the poorer you are.

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#72

Post by bbarn »

smt88 wrote: post #59
bbarn wrote: post #42

My father once won $100,000 from a scratch off ticket. It was a $20.00 scratch off ticket. I gave him crap for years over it because between playing Keno, and buying other scratch offs, he's probably spent close to that trying to recreate the effect. The thing is, he's very serious about his lottery. He enters every losing ticket into a second chance registration on Maryland's lottery site. (This was how I got him to…

I'm not surprised that there are anecdotes of people who play in a (mostly) harmless way. One question I have is whether there might be another way for your dad to have an equally fulfilling amount of fun without losing as much money. It would depend on the individual, obviously. The problem with lotteries is that many of the players aren't like your dad. There are some serious ethical questions that arise when you t…

The idea of getting something for nothing, or less than what it's value is, is pretty hard to take from people. Lotteries just break that down to most base form, and slap a guarantee of authenticity on the return (however unlikely your chances are, it's not an actual scam or a lie that someone DOES win big)

To answer your questions..

1) no one, the state would shut any business like it down if it weren't the state itself - and that's a big flag in itself, as you mention.

2) If it's ok to have it, I don't see why it can't be marketed. It's age-limited (I'd say harder to break the rules and play underage than buying cigarettes and booze could possibly be since you have to go to the state itself to collect any large winnings)

3) "Players have more fun" is the one I remember seeing. If we were seeing ads like "I got out of my trailer park because I won big" or some such nonsense, I'd have more of a problem with it.

4) I don't know about that. That's assuming a lot on someone else's behalf. What you're calling an expression of hopelessness could easily be considered an expression of hope, or fantasy by others.

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#73

Post by bbarn »

ryandrake wrote: post #70
smt88 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised that there are anecdotes of people who play in a (mostly) harmless way. One question I have is whether there might be another way for your dad to have an equally fulfilling amount of fun without losing as much money. It would depend on the individual, obviously. The problem with lotteries is that many of the players aren't like your dad. There are some serious ethical questions that arise when you t…

> 4) Is playing the lottery an expression of hopelessness for some people? They know that their $5 is never going to multiply to $10 (the way it might for a wealthier person), so it's easier to risk that $5 for a chance to win $5 million. I think this is key. Turning $5 into $10 is impossible. Turning $5MM into $10MM is inevitable. The Lottery is a band-aid to treat the symptom (hopelessness). Address the root cause,…

This is an excellent point.

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#75

Post by welterde »

ryandrake wrote: post #55
xixi77 wrote: post #43

Really, people should pause before calling behavior that does not conform to their model or their own preferences "irrational". The typical argument goes like "Expected monetary payoff is negative, therefore buying a lottery ticket an irrational decision" -- but this ignores, for example, the possibility of winning a life-changing prize, that would provide enjoyment far above and beyond what e.g. investing money spen…

Isn't the "Expected monetary payoff" of starting a company negative?

It's not purely chance how well a company will do.

And if you just consider the statistics I wouldn't have thought that the fraction of companies failing is that extreme for it to be negative in the expectation value (especially if you group it into different categories, etc.). Economically it sounds counter-intuitive to me as well.

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#76

Post by mikeash »

ryandrake wrote: post #70
smt88 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised that there are anecdotes of people who play in a (mostly) harmless way. One question I have is whether there might be another way for your dad to have an equally fulfilling amount of fun without losing as much money. It would depend on the individual, obviously. The problem with lotteries is that many of the players aren't like your dad. There are some serious ethical questions that arise when you t…

> 4) Is playing the lottery an expression of hopelessness for some people? They know that their $5 is never going to multiply to $10 (the way it might for a wealthier person), so it's easier to risk that $5 for a chance to win $5 million. I think this is key. Turning $5 into $10 is impossible. Turning $5MM into $10MM is inevitable. The Lottery is a band-aid to treat the symptom (hopelessness). Address the root cause,…

I don't think this affects your overall point, but the lottery itself demonstrates that turning $5 million into $10 million isn't inevitable. Most big lottery winners end up broke again, if not worse, after not too much time. Obviously, the more typical sort of person with $5 million tends to do a better job with it.

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#77

Post by mikeash »

bbarn wrote: post #42

My father once won $100,000 from a scratch off ticket. It was a $20.00 scratch off ticket. I gave him crap for years over it because between playing Keno, and buying other scratch offs, he's probably spent close to that trying to recreate the effect. The thing is, he's very serious about his lottery. He enters every losing ticket into a second chance registration on Maryland's lottery site. (This was how I got him to…

As long as he understands what he's doing and isn't spending himself into oblivion, it seems fine. I spent $60 on some fun flying yesterday and nobody ever gives me crap over that being a waste, and I can't even win any money with that.

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#78

Post by differentView »

ryandrake wrote: post #70
smt88 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised that there are anecdotes of people who play in a (mostly) harmless way. One question I have is whether there might be another way for your dad to have an equally fulfilling amount of fun without losing as much money. It would depend on the individual, obviously. The problem with lotteries is that many of the players aren't like your dad. There are some serious ethical questions that arise when you t…

> 4) Is playing the lottery an expression of hopelessness for some people? They know that their $5 is never going to multiply to $10 (the way it might for a wealthier person), so it's easier to risk that $5 for a chance to win $5 million. I think this is key. Turning $5 into $10 is impossible. Turning $5MM into $10MM is inevitable. The Lottery is a band-aid to treat the symptom (hopelessness). Address the root cause,…

>Turning $5MM into $10MM is inevitable.

What do you mean?

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#79

Post by calebm »

nostrebored wrote: post #37
calebm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what I came to say. I'm not a gambler, but the idea of making gambling illegal seems insane to me in "the land of the free".

Spend some more time around casinos. Watch your opinion change as you realize what depressing things it says about our society that we let people weep on the pavement because they've lost their house on a literal crapshoot. Spending a good bit of my formative years in Biloxi seriously changed my attitude around all of this.

As a Christian, I disagree with the lifestyles many lead, and I have seen those lifestyles lead to much suffering. But just because I think I know better doesn't mean I want to push my views on them. God gave us free will; I advocate free will. Timshel.

Re: Lotteries: America's $70B Shame

#80

Post by cowardlydragon »

bbarn wrote: post #42

My father once won $100,000 from a scratch off ticket. It was a $20.00 scratch off ticket. I gave him crap for years over it because between playing Keno, and buying other scratch offs, he's probably spent close to that trying to recreate the effect. The thing is, he's very serious about his lottery. He enters every losing ticket into a second chance registration on Maryland's lottery site. (This was how I got him to…

The only gambling that makes rational sense is the megamillions jackpot: If you win it changes your life fundamentally (although for the worst for most, ironically) in a way not feasible in your lifespan.

If you're playing under a million dollar payout, you're basically losing no matter what. The payoff approximates what is achievable by other means.

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