> I've learned the hard way that Chrome is the new IE. I started having similar thoughts when seeing sites that require Chrome because they use some (admittedly awesome) new browser feature that's not yet standard. It's given me flashbacks to the days where people used ActiveX for some accessory feature out of "coolness" when they could have had a slightly less fancy site but which would work across browsers.
It's even more common for sites to require Chrome because they use a prefixed version of something that _is_ a standard, but they just can't be bothered to use the standard version...
The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
201–210 of 230 posts
Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#202I didn't see the author at any point question the performance of their JS framework. More specifically, it seems like the author is using Ember for their apps. My (very rough) understanding is that Ember tends to have a lot of issues running on V8. Due to the way Ember is written, V8 tends to have a hard time optimizing for it. Looking at the dbmon benchmarks there's a big difference between Ember performance: http:/…
Re Questioning Ember: I've questioned it many times (and vocally, but within the community itself where I'm an active member). This article is about something much bigger than my framework of choice.
On the comparison above: I've called this one out before, it's a very poorly built Ember app that's also running a version from nearly 2.5 years ago, before Ember invested a ton of time in building a very fast rendering engine, there's no end of dbMon demos showing Ember at or above the speed of the other major frameworks, and we'll be seeing a new one soon with Glimmer2 landing.
On Ember: Ember does take an initial performance hit, but unlike other frameworks it tends to give you fairly constant time performance as your apps and features grow. This initial hit is something Ember is working furiously to fix (and I might add a lot of that is directly due to Mobile Chrome performance). Glimmer2 (the brunt of the v8 focus), app shell architecture, code splitting, and tree shaking are all concepts that will be built into every Ember app within a few months.
On a more "app specific" note, I've been working on making occlusion, recycling, and parallelism simple and easy to work with at the framework level in Ember apps, much of which enabled entirely because of Ember's conventions and approach. Generally speaking, I've been able to build mobile and hybrid apps in Ember that are more performant than anything I've seen so far via other mobile and hybrid approaches... except for Android.
On The Article: I didn't talk about Ember much because my experience with this goes far beyond Ember (or Angular, the other framework that hits these problems more often). The point is that for anything other than simple JS applications, building a great app for Mobile Chrome is extremely difficult to pull off, and it becomes a large cost for app developers and has led to the rise of huge investments in OS solutions just for dealing with it alone.
A point that I didn't talk about much, but which is something you see more in SPAs and hybrid (ala Ember/Angular) is that honestly, 1MB and even 2MB JS apps shouldn't scare us the way they do right now.
Yes, I do agree that it's a lot of JS to ship to a browser, and tree shaking, code splitting, and app-shell will help us deal with that. Yes, I also agree that we shouldn't be asking our users to download 2mb of Javascript to see one page.
But the bet on this architecture goes beyond one page, the moment you hit page 2, every page hit is a performance win over the last. And with ServiceWorkers, this story will only get better. While progressive enhancement is awesome, and will always have a place, full blown apps delivered by the web do too, and full blown apps are very rarely 250kb of Javascript.
What was the last native app you downloaded that was 250kb? And (just name names), when was the last time you looked at how big Facebook's native app is? When it comes to JS apps, we're competing with native, it's naive to think we'll be keeping our JS to such a tiny payload for all time.
Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#203Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#204The problem is the basic assumption that there should be a "framework" and your app is "on" it. I respect the shit out of Tom Dale, but the "megabytes aren't that big in 2016" attitude isn't going to cut it in the long term. Loading a web page needs to happen in a few milliseconds. Accepting anything less than that is just Stockholm Syndrome. Downloading a bunch of code that might run is antithetical to loading a web…
Not gonna work -- just like heavier-than-air flying machines, and horseless carriages, will never work :)
Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wat. Safari ios is the most obtuse browser regarding to standards, makes devs life miserable in every conceivable way, breaks every standard web interaction since 199x (like a top fixed navbar), has it's own opinion on transform origin, handles differently than every other pseudo elements positioning parent and to top it all when it crashes because it gobs more memory than the os can handle spits a message vague enou…
Safari is also the only desktop browser that can handle my "power user" web browsing style. Chrome completely falls over after a few dozen tabs are opened. Firefox holds up better, but still starts starts stuttering when it gets to 80–100 tabs. Safari keeps going fine with several hundred tabs. Edit: For the folks who are apparently offended by my browser use, I’ll elaborate: Why would anyone want a large number of t…
EDIT: uBlock or similar is absolutely must though, unless you browse only slim, "old-school" websites.
Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've actually started switching browsers by website. General browsing? Firefox. Google Maps or YouTube? Chrome. Dont get me started on how painful mobile chrome is. The most hilariously bad are ironically mobile "responsive" websites that just make it crawl and the scroll position skips around during long loads so tapping a link is Russian roulette - the link can move after the touch and you get whatever moved into i…
I do the same. I was finding Chrome slow and bloated for general use so I switched back to Firefox but I still use Chrome for some Google sites.
Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#207Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see this critique now and then, and it always makes me wonder what is wrong with your Chrome installation. I typically have somewhere between 200 and 400 tabs open, and I work on a wimpy little 11" MacBook Air. The vast majority of those tabs are heavy things like Google Docs. Chrome seems to barely notice.
How do you manage hundreds of tabs in Chrome? I used to use hundreds of tabs in firefox, but firefox had an effective tree-style tabs extension...
Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I use Firefox on all my platforms (Linux, Windows, OSX, Android). It's fine.
Firefox has been a memory hog for the last few years. Enough that I switched to Chrome, only to find it was just as bad.
I guess for my use case, I just don't care about that much memory usage. Firefox has definitely improved over 3-4 years ago, where it would have been 2GB for the same level of usage.
Re: The Chrome Distortion: how Chrome negatively alters our expectations
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's even more common for sites to require Chrome because they use a prefixed version of something that _is_ a standard, but they just can't be bothered to use the standard version...
Chrome doesn't use vendor prefixes for new features: http://www.chromium.org/blink#vendor-prefixes
For a view of what's needed in real-world terms for compat with the web nowadays, see https://compat.spec.whatwg.org/